Lionel Messi

[Cal?]

On the back of him winning a treble only 9 months ago

What a complete Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime

If I could think of a word better than spastic that would do ......but fksakes


You only ever come out of these entanglements looking like a complete buffoon Cal - its hard to believe how stupid you are

......but you keep proving you ...er .... are

One day, if you learn to read before posting, you'd realise I was talking about THIS SEASON you idiot.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

.....
Did you not watch the first el classico of the season when Messi was probably motm ...........

You're at it again

It's Puyol who was man of the match.

 

[Gambit]

2:20.

Clears that up then, cheers. Still prefers his left though. Might be a tactic for Le Arse.

 

[Raoul]

Ronaldo has been just as good as Messi this season in terms of goal return but he is being overshadowed because of his time out of the game.

That's like saying Owen Hargreaves has been just as good for us as Darren Fletcher over the past three years, but has been overshadowed because of his time out of the game. Fact is, what Ronaldo might have done during his injury is completely subjective. He could've scored a lot or suffered a complete loss of form. But the fact is he was injured and his time away has tarnished his season.

 

[Cal?]

Ronaldo has been just as good as Messi this season in terms of goal return but he is being overshadowed because of his time out of the game. I think the upcoming El Clasico will help determine who is the better player. That, and whether Barcelona go on to retain the Champions League and if Madrid win La Liga. That scenario would make it quite tricky.

Exactly, it seems this Messi wankfest has gone into overdrive base on his 8 goals in a week.

 

[askabob]

That's like saying Owen Hargreaves has been just as good for us as Darren Fletcher over the past three years, but has been overshadowed because of his time out of the game. Fact is, what Ronaldo might have done during his injury is completely subjective. He could've scored a lot or suffered a complete loss of form. But the fact is he was injured and his time away has tarnished his season.

It has tarnished his season and it probably means he won't win WPOTY but it doesn't negate that he has been just as effective as Messi whenever he has played.

 

[Cal?]

That's like saying Owen Hargreaves has been just as good for us as Darren Fletcher over the past three years, but has been overshadowed because of his time out of the game. Fact is, what Ronaldo might have done during his injury is completely subjective. He could've scored a lot or suffered a complete loss of form. But the fact is he was injured and his time away has tarnished his season.

I'm actually okay with your take on things if it's consistent.

Please explain to FV that Messi's time out in 07/08 is just that, he desperately tries to claim how brilliant Messi was that season.

 

[Raoul]

Comparing Messi to Maradona is just laughable, we shall see how he does in the World Cup...

Its laughable to you because its already happening and completely undermines your Ronaldo is better than Messi argument. Messi's skills, form, and stats are already superior to Maradona's at the same time in his career. The WC will merely punctuate this.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Ronaldo is only being over shadowed by this over hyping of Messi's recent exploits. Namely his performances in the last 2 weeks. Performance wise Ronaldo has kept pace with him all season long.

 

[Cal?]

Its laughable to you because its already happening and completely undermines your Ronaldo is better than Messi argument. Messi's skills, form, and stats are already superior to Maradona's at the same time in his career. The WC will merely punctuate this.

We shall see, I expect Argentina to crash out in the round of 16 or the QF at the latest.

 

[askabob]

Its laughable to you because its already happening and completely undermines your Ronaldo is better than Messi argument. Messi's skills, form, and stats are already superior to Maradona's at the same time in his career. The WC will merely punctuate this.

Messi is not fit to shine Maradona's boots. Maradona is arguably the greatest player to ever play the game, and Messi is only 23 and has been in the spotlight for only 2 or 3 years now. He has a long distance to go if he is ever to be considered alongside Maradona and Pele as footballing greats.

Whatever Messi can do with a football, Maradona can do the same with an orange or an apple.

 

[vuc]

That seems to be the different styles of the teams. Barcelona always look in control, even in games they lose (many have argued they looked so composed against us in 2008).

Real Madrid rarely seem to dictate games, even the ones when they trash the opposition.

First bit I agree.

Second bit, no. Real do dictate games its just that Ronaldo doesn't. It's usually Alonso/Granero/Guti that dictate the flow of the game. Ronaldo from what I have watched lately is a sort of impact player, rather than dominating a game in a manner that Messi does. Maybe that does have to do with the style of play from the teams but the point is this:

If both are scoring the same amount of goals, but one is dominating games and the other isn't. Of course the guy who is doing both will get more recognition. Would you agree here?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Messi is not fit to shine Maradona's boots. Maradona is arguably the greatest player to ever play the game, and Messi is only 23 and has been in the spotlight for only 2 or 3 years now. He has a long distance to go if he is ever to be considered alongside Maradona and Pele as footballing greats.

Whatever Messi can do with a football, Maradona can do the same with an orange or an apple.

Exactly. The Messi hype on here is really going over board.

 

[vuc]

Its laughable to you because its already happening and completely undermines your Ronaldo is better than Messi argument. Messi's skills, form, and stats are already superior to Maradona's at the same time in his career. The WC will merely punctuate this.

Steady on. Messi isn't Maradona yet. Till he does what Maradona did at Napoli and for Argentina in the 86 World Cup, he won't be IMO. You say he had better skills, name which ones. I'll tell you right now that Messi's free-kick will never be as good as Diego's.

 

[Cal?]

Messi is not fit to shine Maradona's boots. Maradona is arguably the greatest player to ever play the game, and Messi is only 23 and has been in the spotlight for only 2 or 3 years now. He has a long distance to go if he is ever to be considered alongside Maradona and Pele as footballing greats.

Whatever Messi can do with a football, Maradona can do the same with an orange or an apple.

It's pretty ridiculous how this wankfest has suddenly gone into overdrive based on one impressive week.

 

[Cal?]

First bit I agree.

Second bit, no. Real do dictate games its just that Ronaldo doesn't. It's usually Alonso/Granero/Guti that dictate the flow of the game. Ronaldo from what I have watched lately is a sort of impact player, rather than dominating a game in a manner that Messi does. Maybe that does have to do with the style of play from the teams but the point is this:

If both are scoring the same amount of goals, but one is dominating games and the other isn't. Of course the guy who is doing both will get more recognition. Would you agree here?

Not really, the result is all that matters, and right now there is literally nothing between the results of Barca & Real in La Liga.

I have seen most of Real's matches this season, and even when they scored 6 against Zaragoza or Villarreal, they did not "control" the match like Barca do most the time. I think it's down to different styles (or maybe manager's orders).

 

[Sarni]

How come Messi 'hasn't won anything yet'? He's won as many league titles as Ronaldo, twice as many European Cups and just like Ronaldo, he hasn't won anything at international level yet. He has as many individual awards of note as well.

 

[vuc]

]Not really, the result is all that matters, and right now there is literally nothing between the results of Barca & Real in La Liga.[/B]

I have seen most of Real's matches this season, and even when they scored 6 against Zaragoza or Villarreal, they did not "control" the match like Barca do most the time. I think it's down to different styles (or maybe manager's orders).

If you're talking about a team then yes, if we're talking about comparing individuals then of course it matters. If one player is demonstrating both goals and dominating games he is ahead in the stakes, what do you base Ronaldo being better than Messi on?

Define control? They have had around 60-70% possession and a shitload of shots on goal. They don't play the keep-ball as much as Barcelona but with Alonso/Guti/VDV/Granero they have more than enough players who can control a game.

 

[Cal?]

How come Messi 'hasn't won anything yet'? He's won as many league titles as Ronaldo, twice as many European Cups and just like Ronaldo, he hasn't won anything at international level yet. He has as many individual awards of note as well.

I was talking about THIS SEASON, it's already been established that Ronaldo was the best in 07/08 and Messi 08/09.

In 09/10 Messi hasn't won anything of note yet.

 

[Raoul]

Messi is not fit to shine Maradona's boots. Maradona is arguably the greatest player to ever play the game, and Messi is only 23 and has been in the spotlight for only 2 or 3 years now. He has a long distance to go if he is ever to be considered alongside Maradona and Pele as footballing greats.

Whatever Messi can do with a football, Maradona can do the same with an orange or an apple.

What utter drivel. People seem to get all giddy when Pele and Maradona's names get brought up. There's a reason why Messi's getting legitimate Maradona comparisons now. He's well on his way to equaling or surpassing Diego's accomplishments.

 

[Sarni]

I was talking about THIS SEASON, it's already been established that Ronaldo was the best in 07/08 and Messi 08/09.

In 09/10 Messi hasn't won anything of note yet.

Because it wasn't possible to win anything for him yet, that's the only reason. They are still in every competition that they entered bar Copa del Rey, which carries little importance as well (even less than the FA Cup here).

 

[Raoul]

Steady on. Messi isn't Maradona yet. Till he does what Maradona did at Napoli and for Argentina in the 86 World Cup, he won't be IMO. You say he had better skills, name which ones. I'll tell you right now that Messi's free-kick will never be as good as Diego's.

He isn't yet, but he's well on his way. I grew up in the 80s and followed Diego's career from WC 82 onwards. So far, Messi is matching him stride for stride.

 

[Cal?]

If you're talking about a team then yes, if we're talking about comparing individuals then of course it matters. If one player is demonstrating both goals and dominating games he is ahead in the stakes, what do you base Ronaldo being better than Messi on?

Define control? They have had around 60-70% possession and a shitload of shots on goal. They don't play the keep-ball as much as Barcelona but with Alonso/Guti/VDV/Granero they have more than enough players who can control a game.

The fact Barca play a more possession based style means Messi is going to have more time on the ball and look to have more control over the game.

Real Madrid seem to get the ball from back to front much quicker and therefore Ronaldo doesn't get as much time on the ball, and hence cannot "dominate" games like Messi does.

Ultimately, I think that Ronaldo has been just as effective in his first season in La Liga as Messi has. Obviously many of you disagree...

Also, Ronaldo has had to give many penalties to Kaka and even Alonso to help his new team-mates. If he had taken all of them, his record would have been even more impressive (given the number of games he played).

 

[vuc]

He isn't yet, but he's well on his way. I grew up in the 80s and followed Diego's career from WC 82 onwards. So far, Messi is matching him stride for stride.

Of course he is on his way, but you seem to have already suggested he has surpassed Diego. Like I said, he won't have done it till he lifts the World Cup by being the standout player in his team or dragging the team.

Not too mention you think that Messi has surpassed Diego in all skill sets too. Premature springs to mind.

 

[Cal?]

Because it wasn't possible to win anything for him yet, that's the only reason. They are still in every competition that they entered bar Copa del Rey, which carries little importance as well (even less than the FA Cup here).

and hence the jury is out on who's the best player in 09/10. That's all I've been getting at...

 

[surf]

Messi plays the game with more control than Ronaldo and Rooney - his dribbling, passing and finishing are rarely wasteful and he makes the right decisions. Overall he does more than anyone else.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I can't believe this is still going on.
No doubt this season so far, Messi has been head and shoulder above everyone else, including Rooney and Ronaldo. But things could still change by the end of season and the coming World Cup.

 

[Sarni]

and hence the jury is out on who's the best player in 09/10. That's all I've been getting at...

Sure it is. I'd say Ronaldo's chances are slim since Real are not going to win in Europe and Portugal won't win the World Cup in all likelihood.

I'd say Barcelona are favorites to win CL but I doubt Argentina are going to play a significant part in the World Cup.

Someone like Rooney could well win it as United are still with a shout to win the double while England have a better chance in South Africa than Argentina and Portugal, plus if they win it it will be because of Rooney.

Xavi and Iniesta are another two who could potentially win two or three major trophies this season. Not sure if Inter or Bayern have anyone who could potentially win both the CL for them and WC for his national team.

 

[Sarni]

I can't believe this is still going on.
No doubt this season so far, Messi has been head and shoulder above everyone else, including Rooney and Ronaldo. But things could still change by the end of season and the coming World Cup.

No, not really.

 

[B20]

Messi is no Maradona yet, but I do agree that he seems on course to emulate him if he keeps progressing.

One thing he seems to have galore that Maradona never really managed to show in Europe is scoring a ridiculous amount of goals. I don't think it's improbable he'll break the 50-goal barrier at some point.

I don't think he'll ever be as gifted a passer as Diego, but is well on his way to becoming world class in the buildup in his own right. And techniquewise, the pair of them are in a league of their own for the difference to be negligible.

At this rate, another 3-4 seasons more like this I think the consensus will be that he belongs with the select elite that has hitherto consisted of Pele & Maradona.

 

[Cal?]

Sure it is. I'd say Ronaldo's chances are slim since Real are not going to win in Europe and Portugal won't win the World Cup in all likelihood.

I'd say Barcelona are favorites to win CL but I doubt Argentina are going to play a significant part in the World Cup.

Someone like Rooney could well win it as United are still with a shout to win the double while England have a better chance in South Africa than Argentina and Portugal, plus if they win it it will be because of Rooney.

Xavi and Iniesta are another two who could potentially win two or three major trophies this season. Not sure if Inter or Bayern have anyone who could potentially win both the CL for them and WC for his national team.

Actually agree with everything here...

 

[MehdiMahdavikia]

I was talking about THIS SEASON, it's already been established that Ronaldo was the best in 07/08 and Messi 08/09.

In 09/10 Messi hasn't won anything of note yet.

He's won the Club World Cup

 

[RedRonaldo]

No, not really.

Yes he is.

 

[vuc]

The fact Barca play a more possession based style means Messi is going to have more time on the ball and look to have more control over the game.

Real Madrid seem to get the ball from back to front much quicker and therefore Ronaldo doesn't get as much time on the ball, and hence cannot "dominate" games like Messi does.

Ultimately, I think that Ronaldo has been just as effective in his first season in La Liga as Messi has. Obviously many of you disagree...

Also, Ronaldo has had to give many penalties to Kaka and even Alonso to help his new team-mates. If he had taken all of them, his record would have been even more impressive (given the number of games he played).

This is fair enough. Ronaldo has been effective, of course he has but like I told you if two players are scoring equal goals/assists then the way to decide is which one of those players has dominated games more. Messi would be the obvious choice. Its the manner in which he is doing it that is just taking the piss.

He gave one penalty to Alonso. How many to Kaka?

It's not even about the goals, don't you see that Messi is just taking the piss and ripping teams to bits. A penalty or two here or there won't change that.

 

[Cal?]

He's won the Club World Cup

That's all very well from a commercial point of view, but in recent years, the European representative ALWAYS win. It's hardly something to write home about.

 

[MehdiMahdavikia]

Ultimately, I think that Ronaldo has been just as effective in his first season in La Liga as Messi has. Obviously many of you disagree...

He's got 10 less goals and nowhere near enough assists. Messi is top of both by a considerable margin in Spain.

 

[AttackingFlair]

I disagree with those saying Messi is over hyped right now. He really is that good. If Rooney did what he's done in the last few games, we'd actually start calling him The White Pele without having to joke.

 

[Cal?]

This is fair enough. Ronaldo has been effective, of course he has but like I told you if two players are scoring equal goals/assists then the way to decide is which one of those players has dominated games more. Messi would be the obvious choice. Its the manner in which he is doing it that is just taking the piss.

He gave one penalty to Alonso. How many to Kaka?

It's not even about the goals, don't you see that Messi is just taking the piss and ripping teams to bits. A penalty or two here or there won't change that.

I can see where you're coming from, and your theory certainly has its merits, but I just don't see why RM's style should count against Ronaldo. By all accounts, he's doing everything his manager is asking him to do.

I remember at least 3 penalties Kaka has taken, but anyway, that isn't really the point. I think Ronaldo has pretty much exceeded all expectations in a new league with a new team.

Anyway, time to move on, no doubt this argument will be revived before El Clasico.

 

[Cal?]

He's got 10 less goals and nowhere near enough assists. Messi is top of both by a considerable margin in Spain.

It'd be kind of difficult to match those goals having played about 14 games less or something. Anyway, 22 goals in 24 matches is still very impressive.

Till later.

 

[vuc]

I can see where you're coming from, and your theory certainly has its merits, but I just don't see why RM's style should count against Ronaldo. By all accounts, he's doing everything his manager is asking him to do.

I remember at least 3 penalties Kaka has taken, but anyway, that isn't really the point. I think Ronaldo has pretty much exceeded all expectations in a new league with a new team.

Anyway, time to move on, no doubt this argument will be revived before El Clasico.

Yeh and I too see your points.

Indeed, should be a spectacle as Ronaldo will hopefully be fit for the game.