I've decided to end my ignorance about hip hop

Mel, sounds like you need more Wu and less Dre.

Look at:

Wu Tang
Keith Murray
Busta Rhymes
Rass Kass (great call on that)
Common (formerly Common Sense)
Mos Def
Rakim
Notorious BIG
Nas
 
Melbourne Red said:
Furthermore, I'm after rappers with the cleverest lyrics. To that end, I don't mind if the rapper is concerned with politics, or even whether he indulges the gangsta shit described above, I just want to hear the rappers with the most impressive command of words.
Click to expand...

Rakim
The Notorious BIG
Big L
Nas
Kanye West
Method Man
Redman
-----------

Tupac, sometimes, though I reckon you'll find him annoying
Even Eminem to an extent, though all on a theme (generally the theme is him)

Most rappers are more about the rhythm than the lyrics themselves, but if you tie the two together you get the best. The very best, like Biggie, can go off rhythm and actually make things sound better.
 
sincher said:
Rakim
The Notorious BIG
Big L
Nas
Kanye West
Method Man
Redman
-----------

Tupac, sometimes, though I reckon you'll find him annoying
Even Eminem to an extent, though all on a theme (generally the theme is him)
Click to expand...

I don't know what fans of rap reckon of Eminem but I reckon his lyrics are both hilarious and bloody clever.

He's the only rapper I've ever owned an album by, I bought his second one when I was a kid.

Other than that, I can honestly state that I've never heard a single track by any of the rappers mentioned in this thread, except for one or two by Tupac.

It's amazing how I've managed to avoid an entire genre of music so completely.
 
Lupe is your man, clever lyrics and catchy beats. Shame there aren't more of his songs on youtube, would have posted "He Say She Say", "Hurt Me Soul" and "Streets On Fire" which are my favorites songs of his.



Black Star are quality as well, as is Mos Def and Talib Kweli.



I believe it's impossible to not like this song. Could only find the instrumental though.

 
Melbourne Red said:
Thanks for those, guys. I've also asked people on facebook and talked to some mates, and basically I'll be getting the albums that recur most often in people's recommendations.

But to be fair, I've got halfway into Straight Outta Compton and am now having a rethink. I knew it'd be full of male posturing, glorification of the criminal life and 'bitches ain't shit' attitude, but I thought it might be interesting anyway. But having listened to it, it really is fecking tedious. The complete absence of any self-aware irony is also making me cringe.

A move away from that would be welcome.

Furthermore, I'm after rappers with the cleverest lyrics. To that end, I don't mind if the rapper is concerned with politics, or even whether he indulges the gangsta shit described above, I just want to hear the rappers with the most impressive command of words.
Click to expand...

That is why you should pay attention to the list I provided, when you have time go through the list and punch each artist/group into youtube and listen to one song. This is as good a start as you will get into the quality end of the genre.

People Under The Stairs
Jurassic 5
The Pharcyde
Main Source
Gang Starr
A Tribe Called Quest/Q-Tip
The Roots
De La Soul
Eric B & Rakim
Big L
Leaders of the New School
Fu-Schnickens
Lords of the Underground
Big Daddy Kane
Jeru
Diamond D
Mos Def
Jungle Bros
UMCs
Stetsasonic
KRS-One
Poor Righteous Teachers


NWA, Tupac all that stuff is OK if you are a teenager off your tits on quality weed but that's as far as it goes, personally I've never rated Tupac but that's my opinion. The recommendation of The Goats album was inspired, try it. Roots Manuva, well worth a blast. A Tribe Called Quest are one of the best groups out there, Q-Tip is still putting out strong stuff. Pharcyde, Jurassic 5, well left of centre, again strong stuff.

Maybe try out with a good compilation too, Kenny Dope presents Hip-Hop Forever isn't a bad place to start.
 
pillory said:
d1260702rme.jpg


"Media darlings after the commercial success of their debut, Digable Planets attempted to prove their artistic merit with this second album, and succeeded wildly. ... The beats were incredible, some of the best ever heard on a rap record, a hip-hop version of the classic, off-kilter, New Orleans second-line funk. The productions, all crafted by the group themselves, were laid-back and clearly superior to much hip-hop of the time. The raps, though certainly not hardcore, were just as intelligent as on the debut, and flowed much better."



Click to expand...


These weren't bad, I liked the interesting instrumentals that were going on in the background. Didn't fully grab me though.
 
R.Nilsson7 said:
Lupe is your man, clever lyrics and catchy beats. Shame there aren't more of his songs on youtube, would have posted "He Say She Say", "Hurt Me Soul" and "Streets On Fire" who are my favorites songs of his.

Click to expand...


This is the best rap track of all time.

Admittedly I only started listening to rap this afternoon, at 5pm, but I've decided that this is officially as good as it gets.
 
Tumbling-Dice said:
That is why you should pay attention to the list I provided, when you have time go through the list and punch each artist/group into youtube and listen to one song. This is as good a start as you will get into the quality end of the genre.

People Under The Stairs
Jurassic 5
The Pharcyde
Main Source
Gang Starr
A Tribe Called Quest/Q-Tip
The Roots
De La Soul
Eric B & Rakim
Big L
Leaders of the New School
Fu-Schnickens
Lords of the Underground
Big Daddy Kane
Jeru
Diamond D
Mos Def
Jungle Bros
UMCs
Stetsasonic
KRS-One
Poor Righteous Teachers


NWA, Tupac all that stuff is OK if you are a teenager off your tits on quality weed but that's as far as it goes, personally I've never rated Tupac but that's my opinion. The recommendation of The Goats album was inspired, try it. Roots Manuva, well worth a blast. A Tribe Called Quest are one of the best groups out there, Q-Tip is still putting out strong stuff. Pharcyde, Jurassic 5, well left of centre, again strong stuff.

Maybe try out with a good compilation too, Kenny Dope presents Hip-Hop Forever isn't a bad place to start.
Click to expand...

My mates listen to the stuff you've got in your list, and that's probably what I'll eventually end up embracing but I did also want a grounding in the landmark stuff of the late 80s/90s.
 
Melbourne Red said:
This is the best rap track of all time.

Admittedly I only started listening to rap this afternoon, at 5pm, but I've decided that this is officially as good as it gets.
Click to expand...

Lupe is class - my fave:



From the brief bit I have read of what you like and dont like, i reckon you should check out all the artists on this list of 'concious' rappers:
http://www.ugo.com/music/top-11-conscious-rappers/

my personal faves on that list are Mos Def, The Roots and Common.
 
Melbourne Red said:
A move away from that would be welcome.

Furthermore, I'm after rappers with the cleverest lyrics. To that end, I don't mind if the rapper is concerned with politics, or even whether he indulges the gangsta shit described above, I just want to hear the rappers with the most impressive command of words.
Click to expand...
In that case I will have to continue the Sage Francis promotion.

Gunz Yo is ace and exactly the kind of thing you're after, it's all about ridiculing the macho ideals present in a lot of hiphop:


Here's Makeshift Patriot, released a month after 9/11:


Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back and Fear of a Black Planet are the ultimate oldschool (are they oldschool?) political hiphop albums. You'll get them and love them.
 
This one girl tried to Billie Jean me
But I was wearing 2 rubbers, so name that kid 'Houdini'
Click to expand...

- Ras Kass, Conceited Bastard.

IMO Ras Kass is the best lyricist I've ever heard. Don't listen to the naysayers that say he fell off after the DUI charge or that his beats are weak. He can do it all. Both his proper albums 'Nature of the Threat' and 'Rasassination' are fantastic as are the various mix cd's he's realeased after (Institutionalized, Revenge of the Spit etc...)

Also, there's a shit load of Ras stuff that didn't evem make albums. Check out

Jack Frost
Dreams 2
Oral Sex
Remain Anonymous

for a sample of greatness.

Other rappers I rate as Lyricists...

Big L - Gangster for sure but tongue in cheek. Had some hilarious punchlines.
Big Pun - Amazing breath control and flow.
Canibus - Hit and Miss but '100 bars' alone will stand the test of time.
Notorious BIG - For the flow and voice.
Gza - Best rapper in the Wu.
Nas - Illmatic.
Black Thought - The heartbeat of 'The Roots'.
Jeru tha Damaja - Conscious and clever. (Premo's beats weren't bad either)
KRS ONE - Peaked with 'Boom Bap' & 'KRS ONE'

Lesser known - Mad Skillz (now just Skillz), Abdominal, Copywrite, Celp Titled, RA the Rugged Man
 
Great thread, good to see people WANTING to understanding that hip-hop is more than just guns and hoes.

I would suggest you take a spin from the following active catologues (Pretty much what I tell everyone who wants to start out listening to hip-hop):

Atmosphere
Talib Kweli
People Under the Stairs
Fabolous
Masta Ace

From there build your own bridge, it's a mix of group, solo, smooth, commercial, underground, reality, fabrication... everything hip-hop is becoming.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
- Ras Kass, Conceited Bastard.

IMO Ras Kass is the best lyricist I've ever heard. Don't listen to the naysayers that say he fell off after the DUI charge or that his beats are weak. He can do it all. Both his proper albums 'Nature of the Threat' and 'Rasassination' are fantastic as are the various mix cd's he's realeased after (Institutionalized, Revenge of the Spit etc...)

Also, there's a shit load of Ras stuff that didn't evem make albums. Check out

Jack Frost
Dreams 2
Oral Sex
Remain Anonymous

for a sample of greatness.

Other rappers I rate as Lyricists...

Big L - Gangster for sure but tongue in cheek. Had some hilarious punchlines.
Big Pun - Amazing breath control and flow.
Canibus - Hit and Miss but '100 bars' alone will stand the test of time.
Notorious BIG - For the flow and voice.
Gza - Best rapper in the Wu.
Nas - Illmatic.
Black Thought - The heartbeat of 'The Roots'.
Jeru tha Damaja - Conscious and clever. (Premo's beats weren't bad either)
KRS ONE - Peaked with 'Boom Bap' & 'KRS ONE'

Lesser known - Mad Skillz (now just Skillz), Abdominal, Copywrite, Celp Titled, RA the Rugged Man
Click to expand...

This is a very good post Mel. Listen to this person.
 
Melbourne Red said:
Thanks for those, guys. I've also asked people on facebook and talked to some mates, and basically I'll be getting the albums that recur most often in people's recommendations.

But to be fair, I've got halfway into Straight Outta Compton and am now having a rethink. I knew it'd be full of male posturing, glorification of the criminal life and 'bitches ain't shit' attitude, but I thought it might be interesting anyway. But having listened to it, it really is fecking tedious. The complete absence of any self-aware irony is also making me cringe.

A move away from that would be welcome.

Furthermore, I'm after rappers with the cleverest lyrics. To that end, I don't mind if the rapper is concerned with politics, or even whether he indulges the gangsta shit described above, I just want to hear the rappers with the most impressive command of words.
Click to expand...

My thoughts on NWA exactly, really overrated, juvenile shite.

Public Enemy though - just outstanding. Different class and funky as hell when they put their minds to it. Nation of Millions is great, but Fear of a Black Planet is my favourite.

Kanye West's Late Registration has some great tracks as well.

And you can't ignore Eminem, just some fantastic wordplay there.

And Doggystyle by Snoop, not so much the wordplay there, but very chilled listening.
 
nickm said:
My thoughts on NWA exactly, really overrated, juvenile shite.
Click to expand...

Unfair, it's an album that you need to connect to on the basis of your life, I mean it's safe to say the vast majority, if not all of us, don't relate to that music... it's a classic on the West Coast, in paticular LA and LB and I can see why.

It's fun to jam to in your car.
 
So far I've downloaded:

NWA- Straight Outta Compton
Public Enemy- Fear of a Black Planet
Lupe Fiasco- Food and Liquor
Nas- Illmatic
Notorious BIG- Ready to Die
Eminem- Slim Shady LP

At some stage during the next week I'm hoping to write a decent post about my impressions so far.

Meanwhile, I've asked a mate of mine to make a mix tape of tracks he thinks are essential to a beginner's hip hop education. He was so enthusiastic about the project that he promised me that not only would he make the mix tape, he'd also send me annotations about every track explaining why he chose it and what place it occupies in hip hop history and his thematic organisation of the mix tape.

I thought he'd forget about it but today I found in my email a rapidshare link for the mix tape and a word document containing 6500 words worth of annotations. :lol:

I'll spare you the annotations but these are the tracks he's chosen. He's tried to arrange the mix tape with examples of self-reflexive tracks that attempt to chart the history of hip-hop, as well as illustrative examples of sampling, lyrical acrobatics, tracks that tell stories, posse cuts, tracks which spawned out of beefs between rappers, and tracks that show rappers' tendancy to reflect on the rap game.

History

Cunninlynguists – Seasons (feat. Masta Ace prod. RJD2) (from Southernunderground, 2003)
Edan – Fumbling Over Words That Rhyme (from Beauty and the Beat, 2005)
2Pac – Old School (from Me Against the World, 1995)

Beginnings of Hip Hop

Sugarhill Gang - Rapper’s Delight (1979)
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five – The Message (1982)
Eric B. & Rakim – Paid in Full (1987)

Sampling

Beastie Boys – B-Boy Bouillabaisse (from Paul’s Boutique 1989)
Public Enemy – Night of the Living Baseheads (prod. The Bomb Squad from It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold us Back 1988)
Jay-Z – D’evils (prod. DJ Premier from Reasonable Doubt, 1996)
The Roots – Atonement (from Game Theory, 2006)

Lyrical Acrobatics

Organized Konfusion – Bring it On (from Stress: The Extinction Agenda, 1994)
Big Daddy Kane – Come on Down (feat. Q-Tip and Busta Rhymes) (from Prince of Darkness, 1991)
Ras Kass – Etc. (from Soul On Ice, 1996)
Jay-Z – Renegade (feat. Eminem) (from The Blueprint, 2001)
The Roots – Web (from The Tipping Point, 2002)

Storytelling

Slick Rick – Lodi Dodi (feat. Doug E. Fresh) (1985)
Slick Rick – Children’s Story (from The Great Adventures of Slick Rick, 1988)
The Coup – Me and Jesus the Pimp in a ’79 Granada Last Night (from Steal this Album, 1998)
Pete Rock & CL Smooth – They Reminisce Over You (TROY) (from Mecca and the Soul Brother, 1992)

Posse Cuts

Juice Crew – The Symphony
The DOC – Grand Finale (feat. NWA) (from No one can do it better, 1989)
De La Soul – Buddy (Native Tongue Decision Remix) (Feat. A Tribe Called Quest, Jungle Brothers, Monie Love, and Queen Latifah)
Heavy D – Don’t Curse (feat. Kool G Rap, Grand Puba, CL Smooth, Big Daddy Kane, Pete Rock, and Q-Tip) (From Peaceful Journey, 1991)
Luniz – I Got 5 On It (Bay Area Remix) (Feat. Dru Down, Richie Rich, E-40, Shock G, and Spice 1)

Beef

Boogie Down Productions – The Bridge is Over (from Criminal Minded 1987)
Ice Cube – No Vaseline (from Death Certificate, 1991)
2Pac – Hit ‘Em Up (feat. Outlawz, 1996)
Jay-Z – Takeover (from The Blueprint, 2001, prod. Kanye West)
Nas – Ether (from Stillmatic, 2001)

Rappers reflecting on rap

Xzibit – Paparazzi (Radio Version) (from At the Speed of Life, 1996)
De La Soul – Stakes is High (prod. J Dilla, from Stakes is High, 1996)
dead prez – Hip-Hop (from Let’s Get Free, 1999)
Devin aka the Dude – Write and Wrong (from The Dude, 1998)
 
Post up or PM me the annotations, could you? I'd love to read it!
 
Seriously, download Jay-Z - The Blueprint. You wont find to much better then that.
 
Melbourne Red said:
Thanks for those, guys. I've also asked people on facebook and talked to some mates, and basically I'll be getting the albums that recur most often in people's recommendations.

But to be fair, I've got halfway into Straight Outta Compton and am now having a rethink. I knew it'd be full of male posturing, glorification of the criminal life and 'bitches ain't shit' attitude, but I thought it might be interesting anyway. But having listened to it, it really is fecking tedious. The complete absence of any self-aware irony is also making me cringe.

A move away from that would be welcome.

Furthermore, I'm after rappers with the cleverest lyrics. To that end, I don't mind if the rapper is concerned with politics, or even whether he indulges the gangsta shit described above, I just want to hear the rappers with the most impressive command of words.
Click to expand...

I've generally stayed away from the hip-hop threads because the stuff I listen to is... let's just say it's generally not the hip-hop that's discussed here. But like you I find the macho posturing, bitches'n'bling etc. to be tiresome and annoying.

So there's a chance you might enjoy some of my personal favourites (examples linked):

41QGN56WWXL._SL160_AA115_.jpg
Astronautalis - The Mighty Ocean & Nine Dark Theatres
51cxHcBM6kL._SL160_AA115_.jpg
P.O.S. - Never Better

61lSa6U-W5L._SL160_AA115_.jpg
Busdriver - Roadkill Overcoat

61G3M5Y8EVL._SL160_AA115_.jpg
DangerDoom - The Mouse & The Mask

61NpmT0uM7L._SL160_AA115_.jpg
Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip - Angles

318MDCCTCFL._SL160_AA115_.jpg
Dizzee Rascal - Boy In Da Corner
 
Melbourne Red said:
Here are the rapidshare links in case anyone wants to download the mix tape:

http://rapidshare.com/files/263219154/disc_1.zip.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/263219158/disc_2.zip.html

I'm also happy to send anyone a copy of the annotations. The guy is well on his way to become a renowned academic and the annotations show a level of research and clarity of expression that borders on the scholarly.

It'd be a shame if I was the only one who got to read them.
Click to expand...

Sounds interesting - I wouldnt mind a read ...
 
Thanks, MR - great read! Pass my regards to the author. He sounds like he really knows his stuff, that was as good a breakdown of hip-hop history as I've seen. I don't know enough about hip-hop history to confirm or deny most of the stuff he wrote about, so I'll just have to accept it as facts ;)

If he has written any articles or something on the subject, will you pass it on? I'd be interested to read more of his thoughts.
 
Not managed to read it all - will definitely have a look later - cheers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.