Is ronaldo ironically creating the very same conundrum rvn caused the team

hobbers said:
RvN clashed with Ronaldo, the GOAT.

Ronaldo is clashing with Rashford.
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Ronaldo is 'clashing' with Cavani if anything. Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho and Bruno are only 'clashing' with each other for the support roles.

Ronaldo and Cavani are the two who are competing to have the attack built around them in the centreforward role. Ronaldo gets more goals but needs to play in a 2. Cavani has fewer goals, but more workrate and can play as a lone striker.

You can theoretically play Ronaldo and Cavani together. But that means a 4-2-2-2 - which seems to be a problem in its own right.
 
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Rightnr said:
If Rashford/Greenwood/Martial were any good, you could make a comparison. As it stands, they're not fit to lace Ronaldo's boots.
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Why isn't Greenwood fit to lace Ronaldo's boots? He's scored 34 senior goals at age 20, Ronaldo himself had scored 20 by age 20.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Why isn't Greenwood fit to lace Ronaldo's boots? He's scored 34 senior goals at age 20, Ronaldo himself had scored 20 by age 20.
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Ronaldo wasnt a forward then. But it would be stupid to write greenwood.
 
Ronaldo is a problem in my opinion.

He scores a lot and players look up to him, which is great.

However, Cavani is so much better for the balance and dynamic of the team. I feel we’d score as many total goals with Cavani instead of Ron. Ron can also play off the left and come off the bench. If the latter, he will go to America and I’ll wish him well. He might still be our best player but, ironically, we will achieve more without him.
 
I think a better analogy is Rooney. Ronaldo is 37 and on the decline and it will probably take us 2 years to retire him or he moves to the U.S. to play. In the that time we will accept overall mediocrity for a few flashes of brilliance from Ronaldo. Rooney was declining at age 30 and it took us 3 years to realize he was a mediocre player except for the occasional great goal.

Our front office is dumb.
 
Gehrman said:
Ronaldo wasnt a forward then. But it would be stupid to write greenwood.
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Greenwood has played a lot on the wing and hasn't really got a run up front, when he's played up front he's scored or looked like scoring often. I feel like he was thrown on right wing because we had no right wingers, but now we have Sancho so he should play where is best suited for his skills, which I think is striker.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
The problem with the squad now lies with our players currently in their prime - Rashford, McFred, SlabHead the fullbacks.
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Pretty much this.

Rashford and Maguire have a massive top gear, but they been horrifying this season, right through the recent Newcastle game. McFred have a lot top gear and have played as well as could be expected of them. Our fullbacks have struggled. And Bruno…oh my.

Blaming Ronaldo for the poor play of the rest of the squad apart from De Gea would be pathetic.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Why isn't Greenwood fit to lace Ronaldo's boots? He's scored 34 senior goals at age 20, Ronaldo himself had scored 20 by age 20.
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At the moment, he isn't. I consider Greenwood a great talent but I am starting to have major doubts about his mentality and this is what got Ronaldo to the point of greatness.

Greenwood is also not a creator or able to score a wonder goal like Ronaldo. He's good but he's not good enough to throw out Ronaldo (yet).

Rashford and Martial, I won't even mention.
 
Ruud...one of those big calla Fergie got right when he wasn't afraid to get rid of players that thought they were bigger than the club , even when they were great players....like Beckham and Stam.

Shame we don't have a manager now who would do the same with Martial, Rashford and old cups his ears Maguire
 
Ronaldo is not the problem. You can’t compare the 2005/06 team to this one. There was still a core of winners and United greats in that team with two young budding stars in Rooney and Ronaldo. Greenwood is the only player who could compare in terms of those two. The rest apart from Ronaldo are a bunch of spoilt over entitled players who don’t want to go the extra mile to win nor do they know what it takes to win. If anything Ronaldo can help if the idiots in our squad are prepared to listen and learn.
 
Rightnr said:
At the moment, he isn't. I consider Greenwood a great talent but I am starting to have major doubts about his mentality and this is what got Ronaldo to the point of greatness.

Greenwood is also not a creator or able to score a wonder goal like Ronaldo. He's good but he's not good enough to throw out Ronaldo (yet).

Rashford and Martial, I won't even mention.
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If Greenwood got his mentality right - what a player he would be
 
Rightnr said:
At the moment, he isn't. I consider Greenwood a great talent but I am starting to have major doubts about his mentality and this is what got Ronaldo to the point of greatness.

Greenwood is also not a creator or able to score a wonder goal like Ronaldo. He's good but he's not good enough to throw out Ronaldo (yet).

Rashford and Martial, I won't even mention.
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I disagree, his goal against Leicester is proof.
 
Beachryan said:
Ruud was a far more complete centre forward than Ronaldo, especially this Ronaldo. He could hold up play, was a monster at winning the ball from long clearances and was an excellent passer of the ball.

He also ran a whole lot more than this version of Ronaldo.

Hate all the Ruud disrespect. It's like people didn't even see the seasons when he had a functional midfield behind him, as opposed to before he left when it had basically disintegrated. Then as now if we had a couple midfielders who could pass the ball as well as doing their job, we'd look an entirely different prospect.
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Exactly, this Ronaldo is just a poor all-around footballer. The only thing he's good at now is scoring and he isn't even that consistent with his finishing.
 
Rightnr said:
That's not enough. Otherwise Rashford should be on Ronaldo's level.
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Again I disagree, for a player who's just turned 20 it is most certainly enough. Unless you're implying Ronaldo was scoring world class bangers week in week out at 19.

I understand with Rashford, but Rashford is 24 and has had a lot more time, Greenwood is in his second season as a consistent first teamer, I feel it's unfair to judge him already.
 
Dante said:
Ronaldo is 'clashing' with Cavani if anything. Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho and Bruno are only 'clashing' with each other for the support roles.

Ronaldo and Cavani are the two who are competing to have the attack built around them in the centreforward role. Ronaldo gets more goals but needs to play in a 2. Cavani has fewer goals, but more workrate and can play as a lone striker.

You can theoretically play Ronaldo and Cavani together. But that means a 4-2-2-2 - which seems to be a problem in its own right.
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Cavani is never fit so he isn't exactly fighting against a player who is never fit
 
Not sure what is what here but we are indeed considerably worse this season compared to last for some reason.
One guess is that we become very easy to read in our attacks when we have a legend of the sports like Ronaldo as a focal point.

Bruno adores him and tries to find him as often as he can, and Bruno gets on the ball a lot so we end up watching him try more or less impossible passes all game with very little actual end product.

I think it would be better for us to try and play without that classic big (big name)central striker. We tried with Zlatan, Lukaku, Cavani and now Ronaldo and it never really lifts the teams performance.
 
17 goal involvements in 19 starts and Ronaldo is the problem?
Sort out the defence and the worth of our attackers goes up a notch.
 
cyberman said:
17 goal involvements in 19 starts and Ronaldo is the problem?
Sort out the defence and the worth of our attackers goes up a notch.
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I agree. If we didn't have a bottom half level defense in performance we might actually be up there now.
 
cyberman said:
17 goal involvements in 19 starts and Ronaldo is the problem?
Sort out the defence and the worth of our attackers goes up a notch.
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While I have no issues with Ronnys recent performances these types of arguments are just silly. He is clearly the focal point of our attacks and as noted by a number of previous posters this is to the detriment of the potency of our forward line as a whole. He hasn’t added 17 goal involvements. We have scored less with him in the team. At the very least you have to imagine that an alternative forward line with a less concentrated focus on supplying one player could also be effective. I for one would like to see it.
 
captaincantona said:
While I have no issues with Ronnys recent performances these types of arguments are just silly. He is clearly the focal point of our attacks and as noted by a number of previous posters this is to the detriment of the potency of our forward line as a whole. He hasn’t added 17 goal involvements. We have scored less with him in the team. At the very least you have to imagine that an alternative forward line with a less concentrated focus on supplying one player could also be effective. I for one would like to see it.
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This. Completely agree.

To be fair, I think there over the last 2 games there's been a slight shift in approach to utilise others. Unsure whether last night's game was to do with the absence of Bruno (who has proven to have absolute Ronnie tunnel vision), or whether we're noticing the coaching staff starting to do something about it. Ronaldo himself noticeably tried to feed others a few times as well last night.

Anyways, it's a difficult one to prove but my suspicion is that without Ronaldo, the entire forward line may have performed better. Considering every single one of the rest is better in build-up play than him (including Rashford who at least can carry the ball up field and keeps the opposition honest)
 
captaincantona said:
While I have no issues with Ronnys recent performances these types of arguments are just silly. He is clearly the focal point of our attacks and as noted by a number of previous posters this is to the detriment of the potency of our forward line as a whole. He hasn’t added 17 goal involvements. We have scored less with him in the team. At the very least you have to imagine that an alternative forward line with a less concentrated focus on supplying one player could also be effective. I for one would like to see it.
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If we actually put a few decent crosses in every game then Ronaldo and Cavani would look a lot better. We don't play to anybody's strengths in the team at the moment for me. Greenwood on the left yesterday was an interesting experiment from that point of view though. It makes him look up and consider passing or crossing as well as just seeing if he can get a shot away. I'd like to see a lot more of him and Sancho on their "natural" wings if we're going to play 2 up top.
 
captaincantona said:
While I have no issues with Ronnys recent performances these types of arguments are just silly. He is clearly the focal point of our attacks and as noted by a number of previous posters this is to the detriment of the potency of our forward line as a whole. He hasn’t added 17 goal involvements. We have scored less with him in the team. At the very least you have to imagine that an alternative forward line with a less concentrated focus on supplying one player could also be effective. I for one would like to see it.
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The issue is our other strikers have been a bit shit. How much better would that attack look if Rashford, Greenwood, Martial :nervous: and even Sancho were firing according to their talent. Teams can do very well with a striker that is the focus, the other players need to play good too though. Let's not find excuses for them because Ronaldo is playing and scoring.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Yes, Ronaldo is blocking Greenwood's path in the team. I reckon if Greenwood was played up front and got going, he would do a lot of what Ronaldo is currently doing, while the team would flourish a lot more.

Greenwood scored 3 goals in 3 league games before Ronaldo arrived, scored 1 since he's played with him. Scored another brilliant goal against Young Boys when not playing with him. We'll never know how he actually would have done this season without Ronaldo arriving. It would be an interesting alternative history.
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Not this again, using 3 early season games against weak opponents to conclude everything. Pogba has 5+ assists too during those games, is he better than De Bruyne then? Greenwood scored feck all last season, is that Ronaldo fault too?
 
Idxomer said:
Exactly, this Ronaldo is just a poor all-around footballer. The only thing he's good at now is scoring and he isn't even that consistent with his finishing.
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Thought he had a good all round performance against Burnley. Should have scored his first chance though.
 
captaincantona said:
While I have no issues with Ronnys recent performances these types of arguments are just silly. He is clearly the focal point of our attacks and as noted by a number of previous posters this is to the detriment of the potency of our forward line as a whole. He hasn’t added 17 goal involvements. We have scored less with him in the team. At the very least you have to imagine that an alternative forward line with a less concentrated focus on supplying one player could also be effective. I for one would like to see it.
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He’s the focal point of an attack that hasn’t worked all season. He is saving our bacon in attack as much as David is in defence. We have a striker who is able to feast on scraps yet that is overlooked because the stupid amount of tens and inside forwards behind him who can’t find a 10 yard pass?
As a club we seem to have a problem with excellence. Rashford scores over 20 goals for 2 seasons in a row and he’s a scrub. Bruno came n and put on world class numbers and it’s he doesn’t keep the ball enough and takes too many risks. Now it’s Ronaldos turn. Cavani is some kind of hero when he’s out injured 3 games from 5 and rarely scores.
This fanbase has a bad habit of focusing all our woes on one player and it doesn’t make sense.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Yes, Ronaldo is blocking Greenwood's path in the team. I reckon if Greenwood was played up front and got going, he would do a lot of what Ronaldo is currently doing, while the team would flourish a lot more.

Greenwood scored 3 goals in 3 league games before Ronaldo arrived, scored 1 since he's played with him. Scored another brilliant goal against Young Boys when not playing with him. We'll never know how he actually would have done this season without Ronaldo arriving. It would be an interesting alternative history.
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We have seen it. It’s Greenwood going long periods of times without scoring. His start to this season is eeerily similar to last, I’m struggling to see what Ronaldo is changing, Mason is still shooting from all angles when he has no right to
 
Idxomer said:
Exactly, this Ronaldo is just a poor all-around footballer. The only thing he's good at now is scoring and he isn't even that consistent with his finishing.
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Absolutely agreed.

His touches are atrocious. He's weak and cumbersome. He can't pass, can't dribble, can't shield the ball. Tbh he doesn't even look a proper footballer anymore failing these very basics on a regular basis. It's so frustrating and annoying to watch. Most of our attacking movements were killed when the ball reached him.

Let's not discuss about his defensive contribution because it's basically non existent.

The only thing he's good at now is his movements and scorer instinct. But his finishing has been inconsistent, he's started missing huge chances which he should have definitely burried. According to stats he is the worst finisher among our regular forwards.

Imo his legs and body simply couldn't keep up with what he wants or is supposed to do anymore. As with any other aging player we've witnessed imo. With his current declining rate I'm fearful to think about him leading our attack for the next one and a half year. He should be used more as a sub and for rotation not an untouchable starter.

In the last three matches he's been effectively the worst among our forwards yet he keeps starting. My only hope is Ralf would be bold enough. We can't continue like this.
 
Nordmore said:
Absolutely agreed.

His touches are atrocious. He's weak and cumbersome. He can't pass, can't dribble, can't shield the ball. Tbh he doesn't even look a proper footballer anymore failing these very basics on a regular basis. It's so frustrating and annoying to watch. Most of our attacking movements were killed when the ball reached him.

Let's not discuss about his defensive contribution because it's basically non existent.

The only thing he's good at now is his movements and scorer instinct. But his finishing has been inconsistent, he's started missing huge chances which he should have definitely burried. According to stats he is the worst finisher among our regular forwards.

Imo his legs and body simply couldn't keep up with what he wants or is supposed to do anymore. As with any other aging player we've witnessed imo. With his current declining rate I'm fearful to think about him leading our attack for the next one and a half year. He should be used more as a sub and for rotation not an untouchable starter.

In the last three matches he's been effectively the worst among our forwards yet he keeps starting. My only hope is Ralf would be bold enough. We can't continue like this.
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Agreed. People will bring up stats but ignore the context. He was terrible vs Norwich, but scored a penalty. Terrible vs Newcastle. Terrible last game, but got a tap in front of an open net and miscontrolled a ball that led to an assist. If you just look at the stats, it seems good, but if you watch the actual games, Ronaldo is very limited at this stage.
 
Being in bad form is not the same as being finished. The fact that he's scoring even when in atrocious form shows you what a good player he is.
 
hobbers said:
RvN clashed with Ronaldo, the GOAT.

Ronaldo is clashing with Rashford.
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Not going to comment on the thread in general but Ronaldo was very far away from being the goat or even looking like it when rvn played for us.
 
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