Is Ole’s football really any better than José & LVG’s?

dal said:
Are you being serious? I think his man management is his best asset.
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I question his man management regarding a winning mentality. That's all.
We've shown that we can mix it up with the best of them, but we're far too inconsistent. So many times we've just not shown up in matches. I want to see some more determination when games are slipping away.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
I feel like you are one of the 0.1% of this forum who actually understands the standards of this club & isn’t brainwashed by sentiment for this fraud. What has happened to our fans? The standards are on the floor. We’re supposed to be the British Madrid/Bayern. Their fans would never accept this.
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That was a fair comparison at the turn of the century, but since then the Spanish and German leagues have become even more of a monopoly and the PL has gone the other way.

Standards are not on the floor the title and being the best is always the ultimate goal but it was never a realistic goal this season, next season we have to put in a actual title challenge otherwise it would be deemed a failure.

We are recovering from 7 or so years of poor squad management we went from SAF to Moyes to LVG to Mourinho to Ole all very different managers with different philosophys and end result was a horribly unbalanced squad with lots of overpaid deadwood. The job with the squad isnt done yet I think the defence is the only part of that may be good enough to be part of a title winning side and that's quite debatable aswell.

There is numerous holes across the midfield and attack with the most glaring being CDM, CF and RW maybe in the summer of we can fill two of those roles with top quality signings we could realistically expect a genuine title challenge next season and then your current expectations and standards may carry some weight.
 
I must admit I am watching fewer games this season, mostly because I am not entertained as much as I want to be. It’s a lot of games all the time too, that’s also playing a big part. This United-team lacks flair and artistry, the attacking patterns are not there... we just win games by being better than the other team on paper. I enjoyed the Leeds-game a while back, but obviously that can be explained more by Leeds than Manchester United.

The games against Milan in the level 2 European cup, I had no interest in watching a single minute of those games. This post is of course not of interest to anyone on here, but if I feel this way, others are surely doing the same... Our current manager has this fake mantra of playing the United-way, but we really aren’t doing that. He has found his best way to win football games based on his incredibly limited knowledge of installing attacking football, and it barely works to get results, but we are solar systems away from being as interesting as Man City and it’s a shame.
 
The football is so much better now. But it’s true we don’t always play well.

CM is the issue. McFred do a great job and you can’t question their attitude but we are easier on the eye when Pogba is in there and playing well. However it’s tricky to get the balance right. Truth is, we won’t consistently play great football until we improve the quality in CM.

All said and done, I’m enjoying the whole ride so much more than at any point since SAF.
 
Smores said:
We start almost every game half arsed. It's not his best asset at all, not being a miserable tw*t like Jose doesn't make someone a good man manager.
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We have a front 3 of Martial, Greenwood and Rashford all talent Ole has tried to nurture, all with us from their teens.

He’s crying out for some world class peak age attackers.

He’s done brilliant with what he has had he knows he needs this and our control and tempo in games will improve dramatically once he gets it.

He wanted Grealish and Sancho and got a nothing player in VDB. We need to sign two world class front three players in the summer.

Pogba isn’t a world class front three player however when he switches it on in those positions we can see what we are missing.

If we had two of Mahrez, Grealish, Haaland, Sancho, Salah, Mane in our front two we would be ridiculous. We lack serious quality in those positions.

Enjoy the improvement more will come.

We have the right manager I 100 percent believe this.
 
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chiz2kul said:
He is an absolutely incompetent coach IMO. Zero tactical intelligence. It's really tragic that United has been reduced to counter attacking football, nothing else. No fluidity in link ups, zero positional awareness, and very poor technical players. Down to coaching and recruitment IMO. This coach will never take united back to the glory days. What a tragedy to the game as a whole!
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Ole is not a coach.

Ole tells the coaches what he wants

The coaches do the job with the players.
 
—————Haaland————-
Rashford—Bruno—Grealish

Diallo, James, Greenwood.

We would challenge to the wire with those 7.
 
0le said:
For the people saying DDG propped up the stats for LvG and Mourinho, could opponents argue back and claim that Bruno has propped up the stats for Ole?
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That would be a balanced critique. You do not belong on the caf!
 
The main reason we are not playing as well as we could right now is that Bruno,, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood all are out of form. If they had been in the same form they were after the Corona-restart, we would have scored tons of goals in the last 10 matches, and played a lot more exciting football.

But despite this - we are still winning football games. There are 2 ways you can look at this - and I prefer to think -imagine how dangerous we will be when they regain their form.
 
- Finished 3rd Last Year
- Currently Second this year after a disastrous start, in the EL QF's after crashing out of a tough group in CL, FA Cup QFs
- Every acquisition he has made has added positively to the club, and he's turned around careers like that of Fred and Luke Shaw

Doubting the manager has become a pastime for the Caf. Too hard for some of yous to just... see where we are at the end of the season. The journey's been good so far.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Grealish would be horribly wasted on the right.
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Hes that good, he’s probably better than most right sided players.

He won’t always be on the right he would interchange.

He can also play in a double pivot and give Rashford rest on the right when needed and unbelievable cover for Bruno and he’s a winner.

We would have strength in depth and still room for youngsters to come through.

We are talking about a guy who doesn’t lose the ball, he is ridiculous.

Personally as a fan I’d love having Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Haaland, Grealish to choose from each week, then the prospect of Diallo, Mejbri, Shoretire.
 
Water Melon said:
Nonsense, Ole brought in the worlds most expensive CB and has been heavily backed in the transfer market. Career-wise Ole is 3-4 levels below Mou, and is yet to win anything significant, while Jose's career is full big trophies, especially in his early years.
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Not even nearly as much as Mourinho. Let me know when Solskjaer breaks the world transfer record on anyone.

Why are you listing Mourinho's past career achievements as if they're relevant to my post?
 
James Peril said:
The games against Milan in the level 2 European cup, I had no interest in watching a single minute of those games
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This is odd. If you're not sufficiently interested in the team to even watch the games, why would you bother spending time posting on a forum about that team?
 
Smores said:
We start almost every game half arsed. It's not his best asset at all, not being a miserable tw*t like Jose doesn't make someone a good man manager.
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Not causing a fractious divide in the team makes him a better man manager than Mourinho. Ditto not throwing the players under the bus every time he gets tactically embarassed.
 
Feel like this thread is actually really interesting when we stay on topic but it’s just the same stuff if it turns into Ole In versus Ole out.

Stylistically I think our aesthetic issues pretty much all stem from McFred/Bruno setup and, what I see as a misuse of Greenwood.If we were to sign Sancho (or a top RW) do we think Ole would ditch McFred and also play Greenwood centrally? I might overrate Greenwood but it’s clear he needs to be developed centrally now - his ceiling is sky high.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Feel like this thread is actually really interesting when we stay on topic but it’s just the same stuff if it turns into Ole In versus Ole out.

Stylistically I think our aesthetic issues pretty much all stem from McFred/Bruno setup and, what I see as a misuse of Greenwood.If we were to sign Sancho (or a top RW) do we think Ole would ditch McFred and also play Greenwood centrally? I might overrate Greenwood but it’s clear he needs to be developed centrally now - his ceiling is sky high.
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I agree re Greenwood, pleased he’s getting a run in the team centrally and in my view, it’s only a matter of time before he scores a few, and he’ll only get better. It makes me question whether Haaland (or equivalent) is the right move.
 
lysglimt said:
Do you seriously compare the Premier League to the Bundesliga and la Liga ?

To start - La Liga basically consists of 2 clubs who are in a league of their own - after that you have Atletico Madrid, and after that you have in reality nothing. Real and Barcelona have a revenue of 700-800 million euros, Atletico Madrid at €350 million - and no other spanish clubs are above €175 million. If you look at the most expensive signings - Real and Barcelona have 15 of the most expensive, Atletico Madrid have 5. However, this is also slightly misleading because with a player like Joao Felix,, they basically took the money from the sales of Griezmann, Rodri and Lucas Hernandez and signed him - while also covering the signings of Thomas Lemar and Diego Costa made the earlier seasons. So Atletico Madrid never buys an expensive players without balancing the books with sales.

In Bundesliga - Bayern Munchen is at €660 million, Dortmund is just above €350 million. Schalke is at €324 million and Frankfurt is at €180 million. But this makes it look a lot tighter than it is because Dortmund buys cheap and sells expensive, and never really makes an effort to compete with Bayern for the most expensive players. Of the 10 most expensive transfers in Bundesliga-history - 9 of them were bought by Bayern. Of the 20 most expensive, 14 were signed by Bayern. Only other club to ever sign a player for more than €30 million euros in the Bundesliga is Wolfsburg whey signed Julian Draxler So basically Bayern can cherry-pick any player from their opponents - which they did with Götze, Hummels, Lewandowski, Pavard, Neuer and Gomez. And they are also the only club who can afford to buy established stars from other european clubs.

So how does this compare to the Premier League ? Well on the list of highest revenues, 11 out of 30 clubs are playing in the Premier League. 6 clubs in the P.L have a higher revenue than the 2nd highest in Germany (Dortmund), and the 3rd highest in Spain (Atletico M). Crystal Palace rank higher than the 5th best highest Germany and the 4th highest in La Liga, so do Wolves, Everton, West Ham, Arsenal, Leicester and Tottenham to name some.

So it's really laughable when you say that Bayern and Madrid would never accept this. No why would Bayern-fans accept that ? They are in a totally different situation than us. If you remove Liverpool, City, Arsenal, West Ham, Everton, Wolves and Leicester - then you can compare United to Bayern Munchen. Fulham have signed 2 players for £22 million pounds (Anguissa and Mitrovic) - the majority of clubs in the Bundesliga have never signed players that expensive. Sheffield United can afford to sign a youngster from Liverpool for £20 million, most clubs in Bundesliga can dream about that. Leipzig have once in their history signed a player for more than £20 million (Naby Keita). Eintracht Frankfurt who are third have once signed a player for more than £10 million (Luka Jovic). The majority of the clubs in the Championship have higher transfer records than the 2nd most expensive signing they have made. Bayern Munchen are basically competing with clubs with the financial strength of mid-to-low table Premier League sides or Championship sides. So yes, I agree - they would never accept not winning against these side. And if you remove Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Spurs or Leicester - I would probably feel the same way about United - we should win it every single season.

But that is not quite the reality is it ? We are competing with some clubs who have more money than us and some clubs who almost have as much as we have. This isn't 2001 when our only competitor was Arsenal due to some brilliant signings by Wenger, when a poor season was ending second behind Arsenal. Those days our gone. If you have a poor season, you can end 3rd, 4th - or look at Liverpool - even worse.

Some of us actually have a hope of seeing United win the league again while also being a bit realistic. Then there are the other 0,1%
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Great post, I notice it hasn’t been replied to or refuted unless I missed it @Schmeichel's Cartwheel
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
Not even nearly as much as Mourinho. Let me know when Solskjaer breaks the world transfer record on anyone.

Why are you listing Mourinho's past career achievements as if they're relevant to my post?
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Is the bulb on? You butt in my conversation with another poster and then you ask this question? Tired much, I guess. Next time, before you jump into conclusions, try tracking a conversation back to get a clue about the context of it. This is my last line to you: the world record transfer at the time named Paul Pogba is one of Ole's favourite players. Ole has been backed heavily by the club, and is yet to achieve what washed up Jose did both points-wise and trophies-wise.
 
Water Melon said:
Is the bulb on? You butt in my conversation with another poster and then you ask this question? Tired much, I guess. Next time, before you jump into conclusions, try tracking a conversation back to get a clue about the context of it. This is my last line to you: the world record transfer at the time named Paul Pogba is one of Ole's favourite players. Ole has been backed heavily by the club, and is yet to achieve what washed up Jose did both points-wise and trophies-wise.
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You sound wound up. Going on a rant doesn't make you post about Ole "needing to finish with 81 points to match Mourinho" any less dumb.

Why on earth do I care that Ole likes Pogba and how is that a rebuttle of the fact that Solskjaer was never backed even nearly as much as Mourinho was?

If you have something of substance to say, I'm here. Take a deep breath. Sort out your thoughts before your mind explodes, and try to articulate a coherent, cogent reply.
 
chiz2kul said:
He is an absolutely incompetent coach IMO. Zero tactical intelligence. It's really tragic that United has been reduced to counter attacking football, nothing else. No fluidity in link ups, zero positional awareness, and very poor technical players. Down to coaching and recruitment IMO. This coach will never take united back to the glory days. What a tragedy to the game as a whole!
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Another burner account. :nervous: :boring:
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
I feel like you are one of the 0.1% of this forum who actually understands the standards of this club & isn’t brainwashed by sentiment for this fraud. What has happened to our fans? The standards are on the floor. We’re supposed to be the British Madrid/Bayern. Their fans would never accept this.
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What @lysglimt said, laughable comparison.

"We're supposed to be the British Madrid/Bayern" No, absolutely fecking not, we're supposed to be Manchester United.
 
Ole is massively better than Jose and LvG. We are almost always in the game and even I’m when we aren’t playing well we always can come up with pieces of breathtaking football with all the clever patterns of play and positional play
chiz2kul said:
He is an absolutely incompetent coach IMO. Zero tactical intelligence. It's really tragic that United has been reduced to counter attacking football, nothing else. No fluidity in link ups, zero positional awareness, and very poor technical players. Down to coaching and recruitment IMO. This coach will never take united back to the glory days. What a tragedy to the game as a whole!
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What glory days dude? You mean the trophies we have won in two concentrated periods where we stuck by a manager for years without trophies and then were rewarded for it or the decades upon decades between those two where we didn’t win anything apart from the odd cup run?
 
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Zlatan 7 said:
Great post, I notice it hasn’t been replied to or refuted unless I missed it @Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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Great post indeed. I haven’t replied because it’s long & I can’t be arsed. He’s right about every point so there is nothing to refute. Although I still maintain we are still by far the most reputable club in England & are let down hugely by a horrible lack of ambition from our board. This lack of ambition has now filtered into our fanbase over the last 8 years.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Great post indeed. I haven’t replied because it’s long & I can’t be arsed. He’s right about every point so there is nothing to refute. Although I still maintain we are still by far the most reputable club in England & are let down hugely by a horrible lack of ambition from our board. This lack of ambition has now filtered into our fanbase over the last 8 years.
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Ha, fair enough :)
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Great post indeed. I haven’t replied because it’s long & I can’t be arsed. He’s right about every point so there is nothing to refute. Although I still maintain we are still by far the most reputable club in England & are let down hugely by a horrible lack of ambition from our board. This lack of ambition has now filtered into our fanbase over the last 8 years.
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Its not a lack of ambition affecting our fambase. Its a lack of patience, and in many cases a lack of understanding of what it takes to build a great football team
 
We played more entertaining in Ole’s first (half) season, but we also appeared more naive defensively.

The football we play today is a result of an unbalanced team. We don’t have the right combination of quality to emphasis both defensive stability and entertaining attacking football at the same time. Today we focus a lot on defensive stability. That’s why we play McT/Fred a lot. I think we will miss consistent entertaining football as long as we play both McT/Fred as CMs.

I think Ole is right when he focus on defensive stability first and increase the entertaining factor stepwise by including players to the team with skills we miss a lot. Our attack and entertaining factor suffer from the lack of a playmaking CDM and RW.
 
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Significantly so. Go back and watch games if you’ve got the stomach for it

Mourinho nearly burned the club to the ground as a result of his catastrophic decision-making. Spurs are on that same trajectory and will take years to recover.

Ole was presented with an incredibly challenging job and has made a series of good decisions to reach this point. Now he needs backing in the transfer market to add some more quality to the attacking areas - areas that have been neglected for some time. It’s up to the board to deliver their part of the bargain.
 
I personally think OGS has done an admirable job with the squad he had to work with.

The squad is far from good enough to compete with our cross town rivals for the premiership.

Nothings changed still two or three world class players away from mounting a serious challenge.
 
lysglimt said:
Do you seriously compare the Premier League to the Bundesliga and la Liga ?

To start - La Liga basically consists of 2 clubs who are in a league of their own - after that you have Atletico Madrid, and after that you have in reality nothing. Real and Barcelona have a revenue of 700-800 million euros, Atletico Madrid at €350 million - and no other spanish clubs are above €175 million. If you look at the most expensive signings - Real and Barcelona have 15 of the most expensive, Atletico Madrid have 5. However, this is also slightly misleading because with a player like Joao Felix,, they basically took the money from the sales of Griezmann, Rodri and Lucas Hernandez and signed him - while also covering the signings of Thomas Lemar and Diego Costa made the earlier seasons. So Atletico Madrid never buys an expensive players without balancing the books with sales.

In Bundesliga - Bayern Munchen is at €660 million, Dortmund is just above €350 million. Schalke is at €324 million and Frankfurt is at €180 million. But this makes it look a lot tighter than it is because Dortmund buys cheap and sells expensive, and never really makes an effort to compete with Bayern for the most expensive players. Of the 10 most expensive transfers in Bundesliga-history - 9 of them were bought by Bayern. Of the 20 most expensive, 14 were signed by Bayern. Only other club to ever sign a player for more than €30 million euros in the Bundesliga is Wolfsburg whey signed Julian Draxler So basically Bayern can cherry-pick any player from their opponents - which they did with Götze, Hummels, Lewandowski, Pavard, Neuer and Gomez. And they are also the only club who can afford to buy established stars from other european clubs.

So how does this compare to the Premier League ? Well on the list of highest revenues, 11 out of 30 clubs are playing in the Premier League. 6 clubs in the P.L have a higher revenue than the 2nd highest in Germany (Dortmund), and the 3rd highest in Spain (Atletico M). Crystal Palace rank higher than the 5th best highest Germany and the 4th highest in La Liga, so do Wolves, Everton, West Ham, Arsenal, Leicester and Tottenham to name some.

So it's really laughable when you say that Bayern and Madrid would never accept this. No why would Bayern-fans accept that ? They are in a totally different situation than us. If you remove Liverpool, City, Arsenal, West Ham, Everton, Wolves and Leicester - then you can compare United to Bayern Munchen. Fulham have signed 2 players for £22 million pounds (Anguissa and Mitrovic) - the majority of clubs in the Bundesliga have never signed players that expensive. Sheffield United can afford to sign a youngster from Liverpool for £20 million, most clubs in Bundesliga can dream about that. Leipzig have once in their history signed a player for more than £20 million (Naby Keita). Eintracht Frankfurt who are third have once signed a player for more than £10 million (Luka Jovic). The majority of the clubs in the Championship have higher transfer records than the 2nd most expensive signing they have made. Bayern Munchen are basically competing with clubs with the financial strength of mid-to-low table Premier League sides or Championship sides. So yes, I agree - they would never accept not winning against these side. And if you remove Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Spurs or Leicester - I would probably feel the same way about United - we should win it every single season.

But that is not quite the reality is it ? We are competing with some clubs who have more money than us and some clubs who almost have as much as we have. This isn't 2001 when our only competitor was Arsenal due to some brilliant signings by Wenger, when a poor season was ending second behind Arsenal. Those days our gone. If you have a poor season, you can end 3rd, 4th - or look at Liverpool - even worse.

Some of us actually have a hope of seeing United win the league again while also being a bit realistic. Then there are the other 0,1%
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Is there any way to frame this post?

Should be a sticky that's linked to in a large number of threads on here.
 
Matriac said:
Is there any way to frame this post?

Should be a sticky that's linked to in a large number of threads on here.
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I Mean it's not really fair to say that spain is only 2 clubs. It's atleast 3 big and 2 fine clubs. The only reason England feel so Even is because teams need to spend so much more for talent instead of cheap buys like in spain, there is a reason spain Are doing so good in EL Even with lower spend
 
Wewinsoon said:
I Mean it's not really fair to say that spain is only 2 clubs. It's atleast 3 big and 2 fine clubs. The only reason England feel so Even is because teams need to spend so much more for talent instead of cheap buys like in spain, there is a reason spain Are doing so good in EL Even with lower spend
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In terms of spending and income - Spain is Barcelona, Real Madrid - and Atletico Madrid far behind....and then nothing
 
Easy to set up and play against. Slow at reacting to poor performances. Same old same old.

we will get nowhere with Ole as manager. Will always fall at final few hurdles. Mediocrity ensues
 
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