Is Fred the worst regular starter for United in living memory?

Deery said:
I think we could keep Pogba and Fred has a place he’s not always terrible though limited, I’d look to move on Matic and VDB however as I just don’t see what they do for the team now..
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Fred is basically the Brazilian version of Robbie Savage. He'll chase the ball like a man possessed but he lacks the quality, the brains and the discipline to do anything else. Pogba was doomed the moment we brought Bruno in. They'll keep on stepping on each other toes. Its possible that we can move him in that LW role or move Bruno as a false 9. However that would mean taking the first team spot from Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Bruno and co. Also note that to keep Pogba we'll probably have to fork him a salary that would eclipse anyone else's

The midfield base requires a DM that has ample discipline, positioning and workrate to be an effective bridge between defense and midfield + a deep lying playmaker who can move the ball as efficiently and as effectively as possible. Neither Pogba or Fred can do that.
 
He was dreadful in those opening 25mins yesterday, better in 2nd half. He is just so erratic in his passing. Pulled out some very good passes in the 2nd half, but then at times can't pass it 5 yards, so frustrating.
 
devilish said:
Fred is basically the Brazilian version of Robbie Savage. He'll chase the ball like a man possessed but he lacks the quality, the brains and the discipline to do anything else. Pogba was doomed the moment we brought Bruno in. They'll keep on stepping on each other toes. Its possible that we can move him in that LW role or move Bruno as a false 9. However that would mean taking the first team spot from Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Bruno and co. Also note that to keep Pogba we'll probably have to fork him a salary that would eclipse anyone else's

The midfield base requires a DM that has ample discipline, positioning and workrate to be an effective bridge between defense and midfield + a deep lying playmaker who can move the ball as efficiently and as effectively as possible. Neither Pogba or Fred can do that.
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Pogba has it in him to be a match winner and you can’t put a price on that I think he’s been very good this season with 5 assists and involved in the goal yesterday as well. If we had a decent deep playmaker that could dictate play and move the ball to him in advanced positions he wouldn’t be a problem in the team.

Fred when in a midfield two can be effective and break up play, he’s even been our best player at points in his career I’d keep him even if he wasn’t a nailed on starter he’d offer more than Matic or Donny off the bench and we need quality in the squad to compete at the highest level..
 
hobbers said:
How did we finish miles off the top both seasons? How did we get humiliated in last years CL? How did we get dumped out of the EL by Sevilla and Villarreal? How did we get dumped out of the FA cup by a vulnerable Chelsea and Leicester side? How did we only win 2 out of 12 games against the good teams in the league last season?

Do you think he makes the players around him better? :lol: Did you like when Fred and AWB were hammering passes at each others' shins vs Southampton? Or when he and Pogba were tripping over each other today? Fred isn't always abysmal, but he has so many games like today where he just looks like a lost terrified toddler and like today it so clearly has a detrimental affect on his team mates.
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Each to their own and fans can measure success in whatever way the want I guess. If you are starting a race and the people in front are a mile down the road, you aren't going to catch them up straight away. You know Sevilla have won it loads of times and Villarreal aren't no pushovers. You talk about Chelsea and Leicester like they were fighting relegation, both of which are in the top 5 teams in the league consistently. If people think we were miles off city, too right cause they were a few kicks away from winning everything.

Maybe it's me, 50 years of supporting this club, seen loads of Fred's. In fact there is a 'Fred' each season. It's the player that people focus on, believe they are the reason we aren't winning, focus on what they can't do, not what they can.
Fred is not 'the answer' but he never was. The reason Ole got the extended contract is there has been progress, whether he's the right player to continue to build on is questionable but that's even applicable to Ole and other players too.
 
A CM being asked to do the job of a dm. For Brazil he starts alongside Fabinho or Casemiro.
 
Deery said:
Pogba has it in him to be a match winner and you can’t put a price on that I think he’s been very good this season with 5 assists and involved in the goal yesterday as well. If we had a decent deep playmaker that could dictate play and move the ball to him in advanced positions he wouldn’t be a problem in the team.

Fred when in a midfield two can be effective and break up play, he’s even been our best player at points in his career I’d keep him even if he wasn’t a nailed on starter he’d offer more than Matic or Donny off the bench and we need quality in the squad to compete at the highest level..
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Pogba is likely to leave by the end of season so imo it's rather pointless to include him in the discussion. It's even more unlikely that we'd buy a CM this Jan. Well we gotta live with the current midfield for at least another season I think.
 
Deery said:
Pogba has it in him to be a match winner and you can’t put a price on that I think he’s been very good this season with 5 assists and involved in the goal yesterday as well. If we had a decent deep playmaker that could dictate play and move the ball to him in advanced positions he wouldn’t be a problem in the team.

Fred when in a midfield two can be effective and break up play, he’s even been our best player at points in his career I’d keep him even if he wasn’t a nailed on starter he’d offer more than Matic or Donny off the bench and we need quality in the squad to compete at the highest level..
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Pogba will cost us a bomb in terms of salary which would lead to a domino effect that has the potential of ruining us. Tactically he lacks the characteristics needed to play in our midfield base. If we keep him and we would want him to succeed then we'll have to play him in the LW or instead of Bruno to the expense of other players who are often younger and they are more committed. This reminds of AC Milan of a few decades back when they brought Baggio to play alongside Savicevic. They were two exceptional players but that forward line simply didn't work. Ultimately they had to let one go. Who should we let go Pogba or Bruno?

Fred is very average. He's all intensity and workrate and little brains and quality to match. At 28 its only a matter of time before that intensity will drop, after all the legs are the first thing to go in football.

Put Zakaria alongside Neves and this team will fly
 
Fred and Pogba do not work together. Never has and probably never will. What ever happened to 442 with 2 mids, 2 wingers and 2 strikers? We surely have the personnel for that - why is all 4141 or 4321or 352 - bollox!!!! Depressing watching the cost of that squad struggle to pass the ball around and city banging in 5 without a striker.
 
Don’t know if I’d be sold on Zakaria he doesn’t even start for Switzerland and looks quite poor when he does play.

Neves is a decent premier league player but I don’t think he’d massively improve us and his performances have been going downhill the last year or so.

I don’t know who we could get for the deep playmaker role maybe a swap deal with PSG for Verratti?

I do like Bissouma though and think he has the capability to become world class..
 
He was terrible yesterday

A lot of that was due to him being our only midfielder at times- we looked far too open in that 4-3-3 with Fred frantically trying to cover ground
 
Amadaeus said:
Fred is not the only player in the team. Even though, he made some misplaced pass, so did Pogba, Bruno, and so on. Our build up was awful and wolves played a much attractive brand of football.

Sancho was more anonymous and poorer than Fred and he doesnt get as much criticism.

Fred wasn’t the only one terrible, the whole team was terrible, barring Greenwood, De Gea, and our Defense was decent. That is more tactical than on one player.

Compared to his partner Pogba, I didnt see Fred as that much worse in terms of his performance. As you stated, tactical Fred was thrown under the bus as he had little support in midfield. Fred passing needs improvement, but I believe it is an overreaction from our fans with such sensationalist headline.
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Sancho has started one game for Man United and the other players weren’t directly involved in creating Wolves best chance.
 
cyril C said:
Don't think it is fair to state he never recovered in the fan eyes. Fred works his socks off alright, makes contribution kind of unsung hero. What is unforgivable, are those stupid mis-pass / unforced error, that could have cause goals. If people see Pogba's sloppiness in his own half as a problem, Fred is even worse. He simply pass the ball straight to opponent, without under pressure. Bruno's ball might be intercepted, but those are forward pass, and potential damage is limited. Fred's gift pass is 1 of the worse kind.
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Maybe. Like said already, some players just become the focus and people convince themselves that replacing them fixes issues that are far more entrenched. What I genuinely don't understand is if it is so obvious, why does Ole play him. If losing costs you your dream job, why would anyone pick a player that's gonna cost you it? What we do on forums is an opinion, what Ole does is factual.
 
Bebestation said:
Fred makes a mistake pass to the opposition - bunch of fans start crying and pointing fingers at Fred like Lukaku.

Pogba makes mistakes pass to the opposition - same fans does Jack sh*t and look like they never saw it happen.
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Swap the names round and the same would still be true.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I watched the game. Fred played in central midfield. A position where nobody, at any level, can a receive a ball and ask another player where to pass it before releasing the ball. Never mind in a PL match where the opposition has had one of the most intense high presses of any team in the league so far this season.

91% of Fred’s passes found their target. This has nothing to do with any other player. If you think Pogba was somehow operating Fred like a ventriloquist dummy you’re out of your fecking mind.
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Honestly, I don't understand how a player who 'can't pass', 91% of the time yesterday has done? Maybe some are happier focusing on the 9% when he didn't? Based on that %, If I had a loaded gun to shot at fans, wonder how many would say, no need to worry, he'd only hit 91% of us......
 
Litch said:
Maybe. Like said already, some players just become the focus and people convince themselves that replacing them fixes issues that are far more entrenched. What I genuinely don't understand is if it is so obvious, why does Ole play him. If losing costs you your dream job, why would anyone pick a player that's gonna cost you it? What we do on forums is an opinion, what Ole does is factual.
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Matic's legs are gone.

Pogba has shown on many occasions he can't really play in a midfield 2 for United.

McTominay's injured.

And it looks like thee isn't enough left in the budget to buy another midfielder.

So who else would he play?
 
PeteManic said:
The only other one I can think of is maybe Danny Daley Blind. Fred is absolutely completely shit.

Fcuking Fellaini. Completely forgot about him. Sorry Daley.
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Are you 12 years old? How the feck can you say a cultured CB or a literal plan B that scored winners and late equalizers? Theres been a fair amount of worse players than those two.
 
stevoc said:
Matic's legs are gone.

Pogba has shown on many occasions he can't really play in a midfield 2 for United.

McTominay's injured.

And it looks like thee isn't enough left in the budget to buy another midfielder.

So who else would he play?
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How about Fred - Bruno and Pogba as a #10? Could be worse offensively but better than Fred Pogba I think?
 
I think Rooney was a worse regular starter in the end. So little end product and it felt like it was for so long, which held back progression.
 
stevoc said:
Matic's legs are gone.

Pogba has shown on many occasions he can't really play in a midfield 2 for United.

McTominay's injured.

And it looks like thee isn't enough left in the budget to buy another midfielder.

So who else would he play?
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So this has happened since Ole took over? You know Fred had 124 appearances for this club. Generally even when all those players are fit, he plays.

For me it's common sense. If I had my dream job and thought a player would cost it me, I wouldnt play them under no circumstance. It's not like Ole hasn't done it before with other players. Fred hasn't been on the losing side on too many occasions even in the big games.
 
Drainy said:
receive in deeper positions, playing more simple passes.

Watch the game. Pogba is literally telling him where to stand and where to pass like was playing with a child.

It was honestly pathetic, Fred looking over his shoulder to Pogba for advice.
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So in a team game, one teammate communicated with other player? Really pathetic.
 
roonster09 said:
So in a team game, one teammate communicated with other player? Really pathetic.
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looking over your shoulder helplessly for guidance on the basics such as 'where do I need to stand to receive the ball' is pretty pathetic from a 28 year old. If he was 16/17 making his debut and nervous then ok, but a seasoned pro should get a clue.
 
Drainy said:
looking over your shoulder helplessly for guidance on the basics such as 'where do I need to stand to receive the ball' is pretty pathetic from a 28 year old. If he was 16/17 making his debut and nervous then ok, but a seasoned pro should get a clue.
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It happens in every game, only reason it's even highlighted is (If I'm not wrong) some Lazy pundit (either Tactical Tim or on MOTD) highlighted it as if this happened for the first time.

Players always tell the players where to move, where to pass. It's not pathetic, it's communicating.
 
Drainy said:
looking over your shoulder helplessly for guidance on the basics such as 'where do I need to stand to receive the ball' is pretty pathetic from a 28 year old. If he was 16/17 making his debut and nervous then ok, but a seasoned pro should get a clue.
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This is a narrative existing entirely within your own head.

Can you think of no other reasons that our central midfielders might be communicating constantly in that game to agree how to play? Or is it only because Fred is "pathetic".
 
Fingeredmouse said:
This is a narrative existing entirely within your own head.

Can you think of no other reasons that our central midfielders might be communicating constantly in that game to agree how to play? Or is it only because Fred is "pathetic".
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There is a difference between communicating to make sure you're on the same wavelength and being coached through a game by a teammate at 28.
 
stevoc said:
Matic's legs are gone.

Pogba has shown on many occasions he can't really play in a midfield 2 for United.

McTominay's injured.

And it looks like thee isn't enough left in the budget to buy another midfielder.

So who else would he play?
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Maybe we should try switching to 433 with Pogba and Fred/van de Beek supporting Matic? We need to find a solution, explore every possible option, right now we have nothing apart from Mcfred.
 
Litch said:
So this has happened since Ole took over? You know Fred had 124 appearances for this club. Generally even when all those players are fit, he plays.

For me it's common sense. If I had my dream job and thought a player would cost it me, I wouldnt play them under no circumstance. It's not like Ole hasn't done it before with other players. Fred hasn't been on the losing side on too many occasions even in the big games.
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Bar McTominay currently being injured who usually starts with him then yes. What other midfielders has he had to choose from during the last 2 seasons?
 
Borys said:
Maybe we should try switching to 433 with Pogba and Fred/van de Beek supporting Matic? We need to find a solution, explore every possible option, right now we have nothing apart from Mcfred.
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Switching to 433 would certainly help Fred as I think that's his best position left of a midfield 3 and where he plays for Brazil.

Not sure it's the best thing for the team though as it would mean dropping fernandes or playing him out of position. It's possible pogba and Bruno could work in the same midfield 3 but it wouldn't be in any midfield involving Fred.
 
In terms of signed players...Liam Miller is the worst midfielder I've seen at United.

Jose Kleberson, Djemba, George Graham, Mick Martin were all pretty poor too.

Fred is better than all of them.
 
Depends how you define a) regular starter and b) living memory.

But the answer is likely "no" regardless.
 
stevoc said:
Bar McTominay currently being injured who usually starts with him then yes. What other midfielders has he had to choose from during the last 2 seasons?
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That's not my point. He hasn't had to choose from many because he actually likes playing Scott and Fred even if/when he did. Always played them for the big games. If Ole wanted to replace them, he would have done, pretty much has done for ever other position in question.
 
stevoc said:
Switching to 433 would certainly help Fred as I think that's his best position left of a midfield 3 and where he plays for Brazil.

Not sure it's the best thing for the team though as it would mean dropping fernandes or playing him out of position. It's possible pogba and Bruno could work in the same midfield 3 but it wouldn't be in any midfield involving Fred.
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It wouldn't affect Fernandes at all, just play him as one of the front three - which is exatly what we're doing anyway. Greenwood on the right Sancho on the left.

I don't believe Pogba and Fernandes can play together in midfield, because if you sum them up that's about total of 0,5 real midfielder.
 
Litch said:
That's not my point. He hasn't had to choose from many because he actually likes playing Scott and Fred even if/when he did. Always played them for the big games. If Ole wanted to replace them, he would have done, pretty much has done for ever other position in question.
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Yes he hasn't had many to choose from. And Solskjaer in his 2.5 seasons at the club has yet to sign a central midfielder.

Fred and McTominay are the best options we have, we need better than both but team building is a process.
 
Borys said:
It wouldn't affect Fernandes at all, just play him as one of the front three - which is exatly what we're doing anyway. Greenwood on the right Sancho on the left.
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So Fernandes up front?

Where do Ronaldo and Cavani play then?

Borys said:
I don't believe Pogba and Fernandes can play together in midfield, because if you sum them up that's about total of 0,5 real midfielder.
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I'm sceptical about it myself to be honest.
 
I think it's time to bring in a youngster. I don't follow the reserve squad but I have to believe there might be someone who could do the job. Maybe, just maybe we have someone who will flourish. Other than buying a DM in the next two days there is no other solution. Ole does not trust DvB apparently.

The status quo, Fred and Pogba, is a disaster.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Thos stats reflect exactly what we saw (what I saw anyway). Started extremely badly - with some awful early brain farts - then went on to have a solid performance. As I said in another thread, people just see what they want to see with Fred.
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Exactly.

Scapegoat. Not sure why Mods haven't closed this embarrassing thread yet.

Sure Alex Ferguson had midfield 100x worse than fred and what we have now, yet he still managed to win title.

I have to nominate this as one of the worse thread this year.
 
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