yup. if there are any contract issues coming up with him and barca, we should be in there sharpish. pure magic that lad.
Iniesta - Is there another? | Announces retirement
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yup. if there are any contract issues coming up with him and barca, we should be in there sharpish. pure magic that lad.
Wrong. If a player can do what you do and more he is better than you.
I'm not agreeing with you in any way. Iniesta is way better than Scholes now. Is also much better than Scholes was at his age too. Same goes for Xavi. If the staus quo remains at his peak in a year or 2 he should be superior to both at their best. You said nothing of the kind.
My point is, Xavi dictates games, orchestrates them but allows others to apply the finishing touch. Which for me is what a midfielder should do, which i'm sure is why you rate Xavi so high, I do as well.
Scholes at his peak, dictated games but could also apply the finishing touch as his record of goalscoring from midfield clearly shows. Could he dictate games better than Xavi? is debateable because Xavi plays for Barca famed for their possession, everyone being comfortable on the ball.. if Scholes played for Barca, would Scholes be seen as superior to Xavi?
Then we come to Iniesta, he can dictate games, and also has the potential to be an explosive player rather like Scholes but with world class dribbling ability...lethal combination, but he hasn't really reached his peak in either department. Xavi runs games more consistently due to him being played in centre-mid, so Iniesta is employed in a variety of positions, then on the explosive side.. he doesn't get goals regularly, but he does rip past players for fun in a way only Messi can. My point being that Iniesta has the potential to be better than both, he just needs to continue to believe in himself and sometimes his humility is holding him back.
If he can't do what you do as well as you do then he's not necessarily better than you.
Right, again, you're saying he will be better than Scholes and Xavi at their peaks, but he's not yet,. That's what I said. Well done.
If he can do it almost as well as you and can do things you are incapable of doing he is better. No matter how you dress it.
No. I said I expect him to be better than both at their peaks when he reaches his peak.
I wouldn't have posted this either: "I bet it is. His all round game is better than both ever had."
Meaning I clearly rate him above Xavi and higher than Scholes at his best right now. Which you certainly don't. Thanks for missing the obvious.
But he obviously will be better than both at their peak when he reaches his peak if he's already better than them at their peak now.
Think about it.
Simple question:
Is Iniesta, right now, better than Scholes/Xavi at their peaks?
If yes, then there's no expectations about whether or not he'll be better than them at their peaks, he definitely will be. So saying I expect him to be better is idiotic, because you've already decided he is. If he gets any worse, he'll still have been better than Scholes/Xavi at their peaks when he was at his peak, he just peaked earlier.
If no, then you're not disagreeing with me.
Think about it.
Simple question:
Is Iniesta, right now, better than Scholes/Xavi at their peaks?
If yes, then there's no expectations about whether or not he'll be better than them at their peaks, he definitely will be. So saying I expect him to be better is idiotic, because you've already decided he is. If he gets any worse, he'll still have been better than Scholes/Xavi at their peaks when he was at his peak, he just peaked earlier.
If no, then you're not disagreeing with me.
Iniesta, yes he is quality but in my opinion I would opt for Paul Scholes when he was in his prime anyday.
Know a few people will jump all over this but if he continues to develop, keeps working hard and his progress is managed well, then a certain young englishman called Jack Andrew Wilshere could be a superstar.
Friends watched his progress through arsenal academy and kid has everything, can dribble, go pass players on either side, pass, shoot and even tackle. No its rather soon, but believe this kid will be heartbeat of english national team for years and will be our iniesta.
Friends watched his progress through arsenal academy and kid has everything, can dribble, go pass players on either side, pass, shoot and even tackle. No its rather soon, but believe this kid will be heartbeat of english national team for years and will be our iniesta.
According to Henry Winter, Ravel Morrison in United's academy is even more talented than Wilshere. Needs to be kept on the straight and narrow though.
I agree, wilshere is some player already
Some user on youtube posted them "every touch" videos for Iniesta's matches. There's a whole bunch from last season but I thought I'd post some of them from this season for people to see. When people like Ekeke go on about stats like goals and assists, in some of these videos you'll see him thread a ball through a defence and it may not count as an assist but just because it doesn't, shouldn't take away any credit from him. He's still underrated.
One of him playing for Spain against Bosnia. He made a key pass for the goal but it doesn't count as an assist. Someone like Ekeke would talk about lack of assists, being completely ignorant on passes like that.
At 2.47 he shows how he can play his way out of tight spaces.
Here he only comes on for less than ten minutes and creates such an impact. Plays Zlatan through straight away, but once again it won't be recorded as an assist or anything because he missed.
Against Zaragoza he also showed some of his passing range which some people think he's inferior to compared to others. The ball at 1.09 was just class, had range and was accurate. Should've had a penalty. Shows once again what a great dribbler he is. He opens up the defence with passes, one to Zlatan in that video, they're great passes which are never recorded. You must get my point now. Did well to retain possession for Ibra's goal and what a great "assist" for Messi's. At 3.33, he plays another defence splitting chipped pass, but the striker failed to convert.
Outstanding pass at 0.40 to Messi. Those saying he lacks the range of passing need to see him more.
Note how he also plays out of position on the left wing in games and still manages to do great. He dictates the game as well as anyone, with his passing and movement and along with his ability to dribble and play the killer ball, I honestly think he's the best midfielder around. I don't see any other midfielder capable of doing what he does, and he does it consistently. The likes of Xavi/Fabregas etc, all great at dictating the game but Iniesta's overall game just takes his performances to a different level, for me anyway.
I'm not saying he's been perfect this season, he's been injured at the start and gradually been coming back into the side. He was injured at times last season too. In spite of injury, he still comes back and performs like that.
One of him playing for Spain against Bosnia. He made a key pass for the goal but it doesn't count as an assist. Someone like Ekeke would talk about lack of assists, being completely ignorant on passes like that.
At 2.47 he shows how he can play his way out of tight spaces.
Here he only comes on for less than ten minutes and creates such an impact. Plays Zlatan through straight away, but once again it won't be recorded as an assist or anything because he missed.
Against Zaragoza he also showed some of his passing range which some people think he's inferior to compared to others. The ball at 1.09 was just class, had range and was accurate. Should've had a penalty. Shows once again what a great dribbler he is. He opens up the defence with passes, one to Zlatan in that video, they're great passes which are never recorded. You must get my point now. Did well to retain possession for Ibra's goal and what a great "assist" for Messi's. At 3.33, he plays another defence splitting chipped pass, but the striker failed to convert.
Outstanding pass at 0.40 to Messi. Those saying he lacks the range of passing need to see him more.
Note how he also plays out of position on the left wing in games and still manages to do great. He dictates the game as well as anyone, with his passing and movement and along with his ability to dribble and play the killer ball, I honestly think he's the best midfielder around. I don't see any other midfielder capable of doing what he does, and he does it consistently. The likes of Xavi/Fabregas etc, all great at dictating the game but Iniesta's overall game just takes his performances to a different level, for me anyway.
I'm not saying he's been perfect this season, he's been injured at the start and gradually been coming back into the side. He was injured at times last season too. In spite of injury, he still comes back and performs like that.
The two examples of his great passing range weren't all that impressive, and it's the fact that he does one a game, at most, while someone like Alonso, Fabregas or Scholes do it 3 or 4 times every game, and better.
Both passes lacked pace - more pace on the pass the more penetrative it would've been - they were just floated across.
His vision is right up there, but his execution isn't quite at the same level as others'.
Both passes lacked pace - more pace on the pass the more penetrative it would've been - they were just floated across.
His vision is right up there, but his execution isn't quite at the same level as others'.
Iniesta's passing isn't anywhere near as good as Fabregas', who is probably the best creative passer in world football.
He doesn't try them long passes as much as the Scholes,Alonso or Fabregas so it makes sense to think they're better at it than him
And no peter, Fab isn't the best creative passer, it's Ronaldinho.He may have lost his pace and his passing ability is the most complete ( strength,precision,variety)
And no peter, Fab isn't the best creative passer, it's Ronaldinho.He may have lost his pace and his passing ability is the most complete ( strength,precision,variety)
Showing that Iniesta does a lot of good things that aren't record as assists or goals doesn't detract from what is a valid argument - that it's a lack in his game. It simply shows what everyone already knows: That he does a great many things extremely well besides that to make him one of the best players in the world.
That said, there are games where threading the pass to another player who then has to make another succesful pass for a goal to come off won't cut it or where you simply need a player who will score a goal from nowhere. Probably not a frequent occurence in the barca team that the team will have such a collective offday, so its a lack in his game that doesn't cost much, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
That making that final pass and scoring goals is not something that is seen very often in his repertoire IS a lack. It's a lack that, when you look at what he is capable of, you think he ought to be able to rectify. It's not as if it's such a glaring lack that it makes him overrated, but I do think it is the case that if he were to rectify it, he would be in with a much stronger shout for being the best player in the world.
That said, there are games where threading the pass to another player who then has to make another succesful pass for a goal to come off won't cut it or where you simply need a player who will score a goal from nowhere. Probably not a frequent occurence in the barca team that the team will have such a collective offday, so its a lack in his game that doesn't cost much, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
That making that final pass and scoring goals is not something that is seen very often in his repertoire IS a lack. It's a lack that, when you look at what he is capable of, you think he ought to be able to rectify. It's not as if it's such a glaring lack that it makes him overrated, but I do think it is the case that if he were to rectify it, he would be in with a much stronger shout for being the best player in the world.
Uh. Nice pass and all but one that any of our midfielders could've hit too.
Good passer though he was I don't think that was ever true, and now it's a bit pointless if he's too unfit to exercise his ability.
That really is silly though, what fitness has got to do with passing ability ? The passes I've seen him pull off (whether it's was at Gremio,PSG,Barca,Milan or Brazil), I don't think I've seen a player get close to it, specially the variety of it
Because if you're not fit you can't play, brilliant passer or not. Do you think Bergkamp (or Bobby Charlton for that matter) has forgotten how to pass a ball?
He's obviously fit enough to play games this season ......
Maybe they weren't the best examples but these videos were only from this season where he's been injured for a fair bit of the season. Alonso and Scholes are better long passers but Iniesta is better at other types of passing. Through ball, for example.
Isn't anywhere near as good? Nah. Iniesta's through ball is just as good if not better. Iniesta plays better passes with the outside of his boot imo. Both can hit it well with their left, but I've seen Iniesta do lofted through balls with his left foot, which is pretty exceptional. Long passing will probably go to Cesc but it's ridiculous to say "nowhere near as good". Iniesta's approach play with his passing is probably better too, he's quicker with his one two and getting forward with passing movements. Even in Spain's match yesterday, his passing was penetrative, especially for Alonso's first goal.
You're acting like he never makes assists though. He does, just not really big figures. The point is that he threads a ball through the opposition defence quite a few times in a match, whether the striker converts it or not. Or if the striker chooses to pass it one one one to another team mate. He doesn't score that much because he is unselfish, but its not like he never scores... Chelsea would know.
I love the way Iniesta plays, but Xavi's passing is superior. Nothing to be ashamed of, he's probably the best in the world at keeping possession but both Fabregas and Iniesta are not at his level yet. They have the potential, Fabregas in particular is still very young but not there yet.
I'm not saying he's the best passer, but those saying "he's not on the level of [insert name]" I'd disagree with. Like I said, may not be as good at long passing as Alonso or Scholes for example, but makes up for it with his other type of passing.
Add that to his ability of beating players and he's the best mid in the world, for me. I know most people in this thread disagree, I accept their opinions but those talking about passing... I don't think he's a level below anyone. Not the best - but not a level below.
Add that to his ability of beating players and he's the best mid in the world, for me. I know most people in this thread disagree, I accept their opinions but those talking about passing... I don't think he's a level below anyone. Not the best - but not a level below.
absolutely, his ability to thread a pass is better than most and as good as many. He doesnt find himself being in a position ala Xavi to thread balls constantly due to his commitments to other positions and other aspects of the game but he has everything to his game. His eye for a pass and execution is as good as anyone. Especially in the final third where he is at his best imo.
Just a point - threading the ball through a defense, and threading it through the defense to the advantage of the strikers are two totally different things.
Hillarious, do you seriously believe that? Even if you think that Fabregas passing is better, Iniesta's is in no way 'anywhere near as good'. Thats just a stupid claim really.
For the record, Iniesta has to be up there as one of the best short passers around, he doesn't play the long passes that Fabregas/Alonso does, but thats because he is not a deep lying CM/Playmaker, he does his work in the attacking areas of the pitch and like said, he is one of the best at what he does.
I didn't know Iniesta was Serbian.
no shit ?
He clearly is otherwise I wouldn't have commented...
Now ask yourself really, what the feck has that got to do with my comment?
Strange....
Iniesta is one of the best if not THE best midfielder in world football. TO hear alot of people rating him as "nowhere near" someone else's level of ability be it only in the field of passing leaves me cold. I mean really, have you seen this guy play?
If there is 4 or 5 players in the world with more natural ability than this lad then i dont know them. He's a phenominal player and only his unfashionable or uncharasmatic nature is stopping people from appreciating his true worth.
Iniesta is one of the best if not THE best midfielder in world football. TO hear alot of people rating him as "nowhere near" someone else's level of ability be it only in the field of passing leaves me cold. I mean really, have you seen this guy play?
If there is 4 or 5 players in the world with more natural ability than this lad then i dont know them. He's a phenominal player and only his unfashionable or uncharasmatic nature is stopping people from appreciating his true worth.
He doesn't have gel on his hair
It does sound that simple because last season i thought he was second only to Messi in terms of performance level. Xavi seems to be everyones benchmark these days and he's a world class player but whilst i've seen Iniesta do everything Xavi can do i have never seen Xavi do anything INiesta can't and maybe it'll take a few years for everyone to realize but Iniesta is just a better player than Xavi. I'm sure Barcelona fans would say as much. In other words people who watch him play week in week out.
I said so in my last post.
Rather what has been really idiotic is you insisting we have been saying the same things, when we haven't and being sassy about it.
In addition there's is little wrong with me expecting Iniesta to be better than them at their peaks, when he reaches his peak. Especially when I'm communicating a point to someone who obviously can't grasp that I haven't been agreeing with him amongst other things. I mean how many hints do I have to drop. For a such a wise acre as your self.
Correct.
PeterS is very Scouse-like when talking about Arsenal and Arsenal's players.
If he's better than them now he will, undeniably, be better than them at their peaks.#
There's no expectations needed, it's a fact.
So you're not making any sense.
There's no expectations needed, it's a fact.
So you're not making any sense.
Iniesta is better than them now. He just happens to be the sort who picks up injuries which hamper his reputation but he has went through periods of form where you can compare him favourably to the worlds best and for a period last season he really was the best player in the world, if he could stay fit and perform consistently to high level (for his standards) he would be talked about in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo.
People in here are going on about how players are all putting through-balls in, as if it's some sort of stat, ironically as a defense for someone not having many assists/claiming assists are a pointless stat in istelf.
Au contraire, they use it (as they ain't stats ) to show that some passes are still important with them not included in stats and all
Xavi's ability to invariably stamp his personality on the game is what currently seperates him from other midfielders. Iniesta can do it when he's fit and on form, but not 30 times a season like Xavi does. Ultimately it's fine margins we're talking about: those two have been the best midfielders over the past 18 months or so, with Fabregas approaching that level this season.