Yeah, there is no way he gets any appointment outside Norway after this. Which is why he is trying to fake it till he makes it. But he has no survival instinct, either. If he had any, he would be firing that incompetent coaching staff of his and bringing capable professionals who maybe can help him hide his own shortcomings, but he isn't even doing that.
How can Ole be this bad?
- Thread starter Skills
- Start date
Because it's not the United way?
Jacob for President! When you post please add “and Beans agrees”.
Excellent post. By reading it you can clearly see that Ole ultimately performed exactly as it could be expected based on his career at Molde: very inconsistently (hot streaks followed by atrocious form), achievements to a large degree due to by having better players than most of league opposition and/or crisis/transition period of rivals, occasional streak of good results as an underdog. The only case where he had to deal with limited resources (Cardiff) he resoundingly failed.
Ole is not a bad manager - far from it, and he has his strong points. But at premier league level - he is at best an average/below average manager. His level is not much different from several other managers who used to play under Fergie but struggled to become top managers. Nothing wrong with it and no slight on Ole - very few managers ultimately become good enough to manage a top club.
But I swear I have never heard from a fan of any other club the "laying the foundations", "extended caretaker" and other arguments used to justify hiring Ole in hindsight - even if a person agrees that he is not good enough and never will be.
"Improving the atmosphere" is an argument for an actual caretaker for several months (which Ole in my opinion was) but not more.
There is some merit in "laying the foundations through squad building" argument, as the squad has undoubtedly became stronger in terms of pure player ability, but it is still problematic. It is not that he uncovered, signed and improved many young hidden gems - so that the squad can now be kept as it is without major changes for years. Most of his first team signings are at their peak or past it. Plus we have many fringe players on huge contracts (given under Ole) - for all the talk of him shifting the deadwood. Plus we have some undoubtedly good and young players which were signed - but Ole does not seem to have an idea how to use them (VDB, Sancho). Any new manager would actually reshuffle this squad quite a lot - if given permission/resources - to fit his vision/tactics and replace aging players.
I fundamentally disagree with a portion of fanbase who have a notion that hiring an ex-player who talks/understands the "United way" and is a nice diplomatic guy - but a very average manager at best - can still be a plus. "United way" for me is about principles, not personalities: attacking football, giving chance to youngsters, preference for buying up-and-coming players over established stars (notice how - once very common - "we do not buy stars we develop them" phrase disappeared from this forum - even, ironically, from the vocabulary of Ole supporters and was replaced by "Ole needs a world class DM/CB/RW NOW"), nobody is bigger than the club and above all - hiring, signing or nurturing best of the best (or those who have potential to be best of the best).
I see no reason a modern progressive attacking manager who develops young players - but without history at United - could not adhere to this principles. He can have an advisor/part of coaching stuff with United history - no problem. Klopp has done just fine rebuilding a club comparable to United in terms of uniqueness, history and success - without being a former Liverpool man. And if a former United man is among top 5-10 coaches in the world - great, he can be our first choice (but alas there is no one). Hiring (beyond caretaker role) and persisting with an average manager (and who does not have potential to become top as admitted even by Ole-inners!) - is absolutely a mistake, losing time and a clear negative, in my view.
Last edited:
He's not going to get a job in Norway either.
If United Way is Sir Alex way, and it has to be because his era is what made modern United history, then it is 100% United Way to put club's success above any single person and get rid of anybody who is not pulling their weight [anymore]. Sir Alex unceremoniously got rid of his former star players as soon as he felt they were not top producers. You bet he would get rid of anybody on the coaching staff if they were this incompetent.
The spineless leadership Ole is demonstrating is extremely anti- Sir Alex way
How can an OP be this bad? We all know someone who's shit at writing/thinking. Normally it's because of laziness, lack of focus or just being a bit dim. But Skills doesn't look like he's lazy and you don't have to be a particularly bright individual to write a coherent post or ask a question that actually means something.
How is it genuinely that bad?
Last edited:
I think he lacks drive in all honesty. He’s got one of the biggest jobs in club football. This club should have been buzzing with a frisson of excitement at he tried to implement his philosophy and footballing ethos. Instead he just names an eleven and after three years shows no sign that he’s even attempting to implement a style of play and he sits on bench looking bored as feck looking like he can’t Wait to get home to have his tea.
Another great contribution there. Clearly sir your amazing powers of observation do you credit. Not many people could have gleaned as much from just watching Ole's demeanor on the bench, but that takes you right to core of the issue. Keep up the great work.
Oh the prick just just comments on other peoples posts, hi
You’re up early. Hoping to catch an opinion?
Oh, not just. But when you encounter a shitfest like this, yeah, there's not much else to do. An OP literally asking how come Ole is so clueless, and then five pages of people saying yeah, and I've known it all along. It's ridiculous, laughable and a fecking disgrace.
If people want Ole out, that's fine, the way we've been playing this season. But if you care about United, and about football, then you don't need 17 threads to say so and you don't need to wallow in it. You'd be more interested in discussing the actual issues we have on the pitch, which leave a great deal to discuss. And they will not magically disappear the minute you change the manager.
Last edited:
That was a good read.
He’s never been good. Most Cardiff fans call him their worst ever manager ffs. Only succeeded in Molde because he was given the best resources and the other best team was in transition. The signs were there with that dreadful run when he got the job full time. It’s an absolute travesty that this guys in charge of the 3rd biggest club in the world.
Last edited:
He couldnt manage a dog in a cat fight. Out!
The media started calling him a one trick pony, and for whatever reason he bite and started trying to make us play differently.
What a breezy idiot, eh? Just went and changed the winning formula, who can tell why. Except in reality there's no mystery - as is well known, injuries forced the end of the early high press system, aided by the deficient physical fitness of the squad.
The new season promised a change in form
Really? Did you pay attention at the time? Because this was when the club announced that we were embarking on a full rebuild, and were looking 2-3 seasons ahead for the result. As well as losing Lukaku and Ander Herrera and replacing them with Daniel James. And then we lost Pogba to injury. We were as bad as you'd expect. Until February that is, after which we went undefeated for the rest of the season. Which somehow doesn't get mentioned in your little expose. Nor the fact he had a sequence of 28 games with just one loss last season.
You're not going to find a lot of Norwegian takers, United fans or not, for the ridiculous notion that he did anything other than a very, very good job at Molde, to the extent that matters. Even if you start off a paragraph with the phrase "As you can see".
Maybe not the exact minute we replace the manager - but it certainly won't take 3 years. (assuming we make a sensible appointment of course)
I'd quite happily turn that sentiment back on you, and say if you cared about United you wouldn't desperately be trying to argue that an under qualified and inept manager is good for the club and should be given more time.
That's something the "top reds" never seem to grasp. Those wanting Ole out care more about United than any individual. Those seeking to give him an endless amount of time to prove himself and learn on the job think they're being better fans, but they're not, they're self serving and don't have the best interests of the club at heart.
Serious underrating of the manager position as it's typically the case here. Ole is not a good manager, has never been and never will be. He is your typical generic manager that just got extremely lucky to be where he is and once he is gone, his career will go downhill and fast.
Maybe not the exact minute we replace the manager - but it certainly won't take 3 years. (assuming we make a sensible appointment of course)
The point is these are problems that need to be solved, whoever the manager is. So why expend endless energy and enthusiasm bitching about OGS and digging down into just how crap you think he is, or why. Or enthusing about someone else coming in and being that much greater on account of not being OGS. It all comes down to the same kind of laziness - don't get what you want it's all the manager's fault, if there are issues that need resolving, then that all comes down to getting the right manager and it'll all be okay.
Obviously, results and performances reflect on the manager and the issues don't come falling from the sky. But it's just something about where people choose to put their energy. Ole sits as long as the Board has confidence in him, and for now the issues we have are going to have to be fixed by him and his staff. You'd think that'd be a good deal more interesting and worrying than shouting that he has to go for the 27th time, or engaging in long-winded exposes about the exact form and nature of his incompetence and how it's been obvious all along really.
What I'm saying is if you care about football, then discuss the fecking football. Instead of digging yourself down into how much you dislike the manager and what's wrong with him. If OGS gets fired, it's going to be because of what happens on the pitch, not because you lot had the perseverance to write "Ole out!" 79 times rather than 24.
Wow, grim reading. This should be stickied in every thread about Ole for context.
Oh, come on. It may mirror your feelings, but that's a tendentious, unbalanced and in part downright ignorant account.
It gives a true insight into Ole's past as a manager and I'm guessing it's all factual. I've never questioned how good his time in Norway was when everybody uses it as an example of him being a winner, but you can already draw comparisons with his time here. It basically says to me that what we are seeing is what we should have expected all along.
It's rambling, biased nonsense - hyping up a loss to a newly promoted team in an opening game while at the same time glossing over the fact he'd then win the league two seasons in a row?
The problem with this forum now is it's impossible to have an interesting conversation about United because 99% of what is posted is poorly worded, parroted opinions.
Of course it's not "all factual". It ignores the actual and well-known reasons for the change in style towards the end of 2018/19, posits a delusional premise of expectation for the 2019/20 season, ignores the long period from february 2020 through January 2021 during which we had the best cumulative record in the PL, and gives a laughable estimation of his achievements at Molde.
this is a fair point and Lampard showed this. The manager is absolutely crucial and I would say success is 60% manager 40% playing staff. Ole is better than I thought but his limited and it is hard to see him coming out on top end of season
We're at the point now where you can write " people like Ole that have very little understanding of how football should be played" and not only not get laughed off the board, but get that called "a fair point"? By someone who thinks "success is 60% manager 40% playing staff"?
Allrighty.
I am afraid this has been coming for a very long time. Post Burnley, Spurs, Leipzig he survived because the expectation was not as big, those were big failures as well. Ole has continuously shown that he cannot coach a team.
We have failed to play football throughout his reign, think back to Newcastle, West Ham, Burnley 2 years ago, compare that to games this season. Besides better players, what has changed? Nothing, we still struggle to create, pass and score.
He has been very lucky to still be in the job, but its time to go.
We have failed to play football throughout his reign, think back to Newcastle, West Ham, Burnley 2 years ago, compare that to games this season. Besides better players, what has changed? Nothing, we still struggle to create, pass and score.
He has been very lucky to still be in the job, but its time to go.
I don't know what you are on about. Can you not read bolded text? No idea why you included the quoted section because I am not referring to this
I don’t think he’s a ‘bad manager’. To be fair, I thought he was growing in his role and becoming a better manager. I’ve been very supportive of him since his appointment, quick to defend him when the kneejerkers jump in after a loss/draw here or there. Managers should be given time.
But what we are seeing now, in my view, is his ceiling. This season was the big one for him in terms of judgement, with no excuses. Injuries happen, form loss happens, bad calls against you happen. Its in your role as manager to get results and organise in spite of all that.
I do hope he can turn it around. I hope we get a trophy this year, I hope I’m wrong about him hitting his limits as a manager. Time will tell, but he doesn’t have much more of it left.
But what we are seeing now, in my view, is his ceiling. This season was the big one for him in terms of judgement, with no excuses. Injuries happen, form loss happens, bad calls against you happen. Its in your role as manager to get results and organise in spite of all that.
I do hope he can turn it around. I hope we get a trophy this year, I hope I’m wrong about him hitting his limits as a manager. Time will tell, but he doesn’t have much more of it left.
The truth is we are a huge club. Huge. We have resources 99% of clubs simply cannot match and Ole has spent a considerable amount. How PSG and City look to us with their bottomless pits of money is how we look to almost every other club. Huge resources, 70k fans every game, a glorious history. Even an average manager with such resources should be able to build a decent United side, as seen by Van Gaal and Mourinho both winning trophies. We can buy players like Ronaldo, Fernandes, Varane (and before that Di Maria, Pogba etc) etc that most Premier League clubs wouldn't get a second look at and players like that can win you games regardless of how poor you are.
Ole has not performed miracles, he's just had 3 years and a lot of money and built a very inconsistent side.
Ole has not performed miracles, he's just had 3 years and a lot of money and built a very inconsistent side.
I think a lot of us knew the minute he was appointed that he was not the right man
A rival fan said something to me that I, at the time, disagreed with. He said that Ole wasn't a club legend. He said it was amazing that he scored the winner in the UCL and he is a cult legend but a club legend? Up there with Charlton, Cantona, Keane, Best, Law, Schmeichel, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo? Absolutely not.
Now I am not bashing him as a player, I loved Ole and preferred him to the other three strikers we had and used to try finishing like him over the park but I think the fan had a point....
What’s pissed me off about Ole the most is how he’s totally regressed on the style of play he wanted when he came in.
He wanted his players to be the hardest working - we are the anti-hard workers.
He wanted fast attacking football - when have we ever seen this on a consistent basis? Maybe 5 games a season when teams are open.
He talked a high press - we’ve never done this.
As a playing style we are a million miles from what he set out to achieve yet he’s just been given an extension.
The biggest fraud in top level management in world football who is finally getting found out.
He wanted his players to be the hardest working - we are the anti-hard workers.
He wanted fast attacking football - when have we ever seen this on a consistent basis? Maybe 5 games a season when teams are open.
He talked a high press - we’ve never done this.
As a playing style we are a million miles from what he set out to achieve yet he’s just been given an extension.
The biggest fraud in top level management in world football who is finally getting found out.
There's obviously a lot of overreactions and blatant ignoring of the good things that Ole has done for the club for sure, but at the core of the issue a fair question to ask is whether our current position and performance levels are acceptable given our stature, legacy and finances? Is this Ole's ceiling? Take away the hyperbole in some of the posts and that is essentially what is being asked by a good proportion of fans.
I agree. And the answer to that question is obviously "no". The way we are playing right now, we are in deep crisis, and it cannot continue. Maybe the current regime will find the solutions, maybe they won't. But it can't continue like this. It's not only worse than we should be, it's arguably as bad as we've ever been since SAF.
I just wish people would stick to that, instead of inanely trying to prove it's actually been pretty much like this all along. Because it hasn't.
Threads like this are a tad unfair. Don’t get me wrong I want him out but he’s done okay as the manager.
The issue this season is he has signed 3 top class players and now we are top heavy. He doesn’t pick a team that’s balanced and when he does the balance is McFred, who aren’t good enough.
Wasn’t everyone banging on about using Pogba in the midfield with Bruno and one DM? Ole has tried this and it’s been a complete disaster. Granted many said we needed a DM signed in the summer and that’s looking to be a major issue with the squad.
However this does not condone why we can’t pass as a team. There is a clear issue with defence being too slow to play the ball forward, then midfield rushing to move the ball and most of the time losing possession. This has not changed all season. The midfield position is all wrong. We need to get Bruno to drop deeper, ship out Pogba and play two DM to protect the back 4 (as best they can). In addition the wingers need to be tracking back when we are defending. Ronaldo won’t track back. The recent stats show Greenwood isn’t doing this either. If they don’t follow basic instruction Ole should be dropping these players. Every single Liverpool and City player defend as a team and attack as a team. We have no cohesion between our defence and attack. It’s like two separate squads of 5 players. That’s a major coaching issue and precisely why Ole should be sacked.
The issue this season is he has signed 3 top class players and now we are top heavy. He doesn’t pick a team that’s balanced and when he does the balance is McFred, who aren’t good enough.
Wasn’t everyone banging on about using Pogba in the midfield with Bruno and one DM? Ole has tried this and it’s been a complete disaster. Granted many said we needed a DM signed in the summer and that’s looking to be a major issue with the squad.
However this does not condone why we can’t pass as a team. There is a clear issue with defence being too slow to play the ball forward, then midfield rushing to move the ball and most of the time losing possession. This has not changed all season. The midfield position is all wrong. We need to get Bruno to drop deeper, ship out Pogba and play two DM to protect the back 4 (as best they can). In addition the wingers need to be tracking back when we are defending. Ronaldo won’t track back. The recent stats show Greenwood isn’t doing this either. If they don’t follow basic instruction Ole should be dropping these players. Every single Liverpool and City player defend as a team and attack as a team. We have no cohesion between our defence and attack. It’s like two separate squads of 5 players. That’s a major coaching issue and precisely why Ole should be sacked.
He’s not that bad, being very harsh here. United is a hard job. Ridiculously high expectations but also bad recruitment and planning. Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho are not bad managers. In that context, Ole had been doing a good job until the arrival of the new signings this summer. They ramped up the expectation even further, without improving the team. Ronaldo signing made a tough job even harder, because he’s increased expectations and has disrupted the rest of the team’s balance.
I'm sorry what? Ramped up pressure? This is Manutd, we are meant to be challenging for leagues, this is not Leicester and the title is an expectation, no disrespect to Leicester.
Without improving the team? He has had 500m odd to spend, we signed Sancho and Varane, what else do you expect?
He is probably the worst coach in the PL at the moment, no one can name 1 good thing he has done on the pitch this season with the players he has at his disposal.
Molde are a club in the 22nd ranked league by UEFA Coefficiants. Next to Greek, Israel, Sweden, Bulgaria & Romania leagues.
What's interesting is that Molde actually never missed him, and had instant success after he left both times.
When Ole first left for Cardiff, 2013 season he finished 6th on 44 points (did win Norwegian Cup). The next season, Tor Ole Skullerud won them their first ever double (League + Norwegian Cup), setting a new league points record with 71 points, finishing 11 points ahead of Rosenborg. He lost 3 out of 30 matches, winning 22.
When Ole left for us in 2018, the 2018 season he finished 2nd on 58 points. In Erling Moe's first full season in 2019, he too also won the league with 68 points, undefeated at home, 14 points ahead of 2nd. He lost 4 out of 30, winning 21.
In Ole's previous 4 years, he failed to win the league or Norwegian Cup once (6th 52 pts/5th 45 pts/2nd 54 pts/2nd 58 pts).
He did have some success in his return at Molde. In his first season back in 2016, he finished top of his Europa League group ahead of Fenerbahce, Celtic & Ajax.
Bearing in mind Molde have rich owners and are considered somewhat a cheque book team in Norway. His stint there, especially the 2nd asks questions considering after that he came to us.
One consistent theme in his managerial history has been his side shipping a lot of goals. Over his entire reign with Molde, the side conceded 296 goals over 241 games. At Cardiff, 57 were let in over the 30 matches in charge.
When you're aware of his history, what we're seeing should come as no surprise to anyone. They foresee a lot of the deficiencies that have been ever present throughout his time here. It's likely why he's always been so safety first overall here.
He'll always be a legend. He's also done a good job here, but i hope he leaves whilst that's still the case.
What's interesting is that Molde actually never missed him, and had instant success after he left both times.
When Ole first left for Cardiff, 2013 season he finished 6th on 44 points (did win Norwegian Cup). The next season, Tor Ole Skullerud won them their first ever double (League + Norwegian Cup), setting a new league points record with 71 points, finishing 11 points ahead of Rosenborg. He lost 3 out of 30 matches, winning 22.
When Ole left for us in 2018, the 2018 season he finished 2nd on 58 points. In Erling Moe's first full season in 2019, he too also won the league with 68 points, undefeated at home, 14 points ahead of 2nd. He lost 4 out of 30, winning 21.
In Ole's previous 4 years, he failed to win the league or Norwegian Cup once (6th 52 pts/5th 45 pts/2nd 54 pts/2nd 58 pts).
He did have some success in his return at Molde. In his first season back in 2016, he finished top of his Europa League group ahead of Fenerbahce, Celtic & Ajax.
Bearing in mind Molde have rich owners and are considered somewhat a cheque book team in Norway. His stint there, especially the 2nd asks questions considering after that he came to us.
One consistent theme in his managerial history has been his side shipping a lot of goals. Over his entire reign with Molde, the side conceded 296 goals over 241 games. At Cardiff, 57 were let in over the 30 matches in charge.
When you're aware of his history, what we're seeing should come as no surprise to anyone. They foresee a lot of the deficiencies that have been ever present throughout his time here. It's likely why he's always been so safety first overall here.
He'll always be a legend. He's also done a good job here, but i hope he leaves whilst that's still the case.
Last edited: