Pretty reductive argument and one that surely means you would have turned down Klopp.
How can Ole be this bad?
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You could excuse yourself from the thread seeing nobody is forcing you to make a post.
Can put ihim in the same box as every other SAF ex player turned manager, bit dim with outdated ideas
Or most importantly, lacks necessary skills to do to the job.
Let's not forget that he was the manager that Cardiff sacked...in the championship.
The only surprise is that people are surprised.
The only surprise is that people are surprised.
He's just not a very good manager. His main achievement was winning the Norwegian league (which is a really low standard) nearly a decade ago. Celtic appointed a manager who had won the Norwegian league more recently than Ole, he won the title in Scotland in both seasons in charge and they still sacked him because they thought he wasn't good enough and got Rodgers in instead. Ole's other job was at Cardiff, who he took over when they were 17th in the Premier League and left them when they were 17th in the Championship.
It was a ludicrous appointment in the first place made because it was the easier decision following the inevitable post-Mourinho bounce rather than the club putting the work in that they had promised to completely restructure the club. He's done a lot better than would have been expected and did stabilise us as a top 4 side again and he will leave a significantly better squad than the one he took over (even if his recruitment has been more patchy than some would claim) but he's clearly not the man to take us forward and the results have finally caught up with the generally unconvincing performances.
It was a ludicrous appointment in the first place made because it was the easier decision following the inevitable post-Mourinho bounce rather than the club putting the work in that they had promised to completely restructure the club. He's done a lot better than would have been expected and did stabilise us as a top 4 side again and he will leave a significantly better squad than the one he took over (even if his recruitment has been more patchy than some would claim) but he's clearly not the man to take us forward and the results have finally caught up with the generally unconvincing performances.
Because he was managing in the freaking Norwegian league. That's his level, we somehow decided he was good enough to manage a top team in a top league.
Why should they?
More in jest. But Ole's CV is not in the same category as Klopp's pre Liverpool.
The place is cluttered with similar threads, what’s the point? I sympathise with the sentiment but it doesn’t need it’s own thread.
Nah he's done pretty alright with what he was given. Got rid of a lot of sh*t and brought in pretty decent replacements. Got us where we now expect to be challenging again. Maybe he's not the one to get us all the way, but he has done OK
when ole first got the job i knew it was a massive mistake.. why give the man the job before that season even finished? it made no sense. he did well to restructure the club. rebuild the squad.. but this season he undoing all hes done.. sacking him now and bringing in someone capable to deal with what hes built is by far the best option.
Ole is weak tactically and he doesn't do coaching so he relies on others to do that on his behalf. You expect him to surround himself with experience. He chose the likes of Carrick and Mckenna instead
Why not make a new thread every time you want to post something? Why not make a thread called “mods delete this thread”?
We hired a manager whose only experience in a top league prior to becoming interim United manager was 30 games with Cardiff, where he lost more than half of his games and was relegated. It's not rocket science.
If everyone did that, we would have about 10 new threads every game. We already have like 5-6 threads to discuss Ole and the coaching staff in, so we dont really need any more
He is the worst manager in the league and will never get another premier league job. His only accomplishment as manager in the league is relegating Cardiff
There is a massive difference in managing a top team and any team from expected position 5 and below.
Take Benitez, he is a quality coach. With Everton he is expected to finish from 5th to 10th. That means that he can afford to have some silly dropped points during the season, some bad performances, can have some players that aren't quite up to the standard of Everton, some coaches that, similar to the players, might not be up to Everton's standard yet. All that means that from the manager through the coaching staff to each player, they don't need to have that absolutely top top athlete mentality of a true winner.
Now compare Everton to United.
We are expected to win every game, or at the very least to trouble every team. To win silverware. To drop only a few points in the season and to do so playing quality football. That means that our manager has to be the same caliber as Klopp or Guardiola or Tuchel. Our coaching staff needs to be best in class for every area of training. And our players need to be the very very top.
Ole has no pedigree as one of the best managers in the world. He has never managed at a high standard and has won nothing, even though he has some of the best players in the world.
He does not know how to be ruthless in removing players and coaching staff that are clearly not good enough to be at the best team in the world.
He does not know how to affect change in a game with the use of substitutes.
And he does not have the ability to reach the required standard any of these either.
We have all worked in a company where the work gets done well despite the manager being crap, but when you get a whole business that is run by idiots it goes bust.
Mark my words... if the Glazers, Ole and his coaching staff do not leave our club very soon, the future belongs to Liverpool, Chelsea, City and Newcastle.
I will always have great affection for Ole, but this isn't good enough. We all wanted him to prove himself capable of managing a huge club, but he's falling short. He should be getting more from the players he has. Would someone like Conte be getting better results with the same players? I certainly think he would. However, I don't think the board will sack him anyway, so it's all moot.
Because we’re Nostalgia FC
Because we’re run by a terrible board who know nothing about football and just want to sell the fans something to be excited about occasionally.
Because we’ve been desperate to return to the glory days, and desperation breeds irrationality, and boosts nostalgia
Because a large amount of our fans, drunk on this nostalgia, convinced themselves that winning with a former player - one himself drenched in nostalgic glory - would make it all so much better, and make us, as a club, more superior as a consequence, especially in the age of City and Chelsea… plus make them better and more superior fans in the process…. And the allure of all this was so potent it was worth dismissing the obvious irrationality of it all, and the gigantic red flags it presented.
Because nostalgia is generally always bad, and corrosive, and forcing current and future generations to swill down progressively weak and diluted versions of our own nostalgia, in lieu of giving them anything of their own to be nostalgic about one day, is just how this country operates now, and we - as it’s biggest club - are simply just another sad example of it.
So bring back Ole, bring back Carrick, bring back Phelan, bring back Fletcher, bring back Ronnie… who cares if they’re up to it? Who cares if they have enough experience. Who cares if it’s exactly how Liverpool fell from grace in the 90s… it makes US feel warm and fuzzy, and would make US twice as smug if it miraculously did work… its romantic, not selfish. It’s loyal, not dumb…Embrace it! Glory glory. Nostalgia FC till I die…
Because we’re run by a terrible board who know nothing about football and just want to sell the fans something to be excited about occasionally.
Because we’ve been desperate to return to the glory days, and desperation breeds irrationality, and boosts nostalgia
Because a large amount of our fans, drunk on this nostalgia, convinced themselves that winning with a former player - one himself drenched in nostalgic glory - would make it all so much better, and make us, as a club, more superior as a consequence, especially in the age of City and Chelsea… plus make them better and more superior fans in the process…. And the allure of all this was so potent it was worth dismissing the obvious irrationality of it all, and the gigantic red flags it presented.
Because nostalgia is generally always bad, and corrosive, and forcing current and future generations to swill down progressively weak and diluted versions of our own nostalgia, in lieu of giving them anything of their own to be nostalgic about one day, is just how this country operates now, and we - as it’s biggest club - are simply just another sad example of it.
So bring back Ole, bring back Carrick, bring back Phelan, bring back Fletcher, bring back Ronnie… who cares if they’re up to it? Who cares if they have enough experience. Who cares if it’s exactly how Liverpool fell from grace in the 90s… it makes US feel warm and fuzzy, and would make US twice as smug if it miraculously did work… its romantic, not selfish. It’s loyal, not dumb…Embrace it! Glory glory. Nostalgia FC till I die…
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No last minute PSG penalty, no Ole. Hindsight and that..
I think there are a number of good points in there. We are hoping against hope that Ole will come good, as he's a club legend and a lovely guy, but we need the very best, and Ole isn't cutting it. The sad truth is none of the other top clubs would have given him the job. I hate to say this, but I think he's had his final chance; yet I don't think the Glazers will sack him, for whatever reason.
It literally still is better than Jose here. The players in and everything. Next manager is gonna have a fine job here- considering we get a DM in January
Aside from the opening game against Leeds we've been horrendous all season. It's a miracle how we're even 5th in the league and not bottom of a bang average CL group.
How can LvG, Jose and Ole be this bad ?
Well, let's ask people who appointed them... or will we trust them once again ?
Well, let's ask people who appointed them... or will we trust them once again ?
Jesus wept. Some people on here really need to take a deep breath.
There are plenty of bright individuals in football:
1) Fergie ruled the PL for 30 years going against variety of challenges and winning the league with no midfielders at one point.
2) Pep redefined football with his possession style winning the league with only midfielders at one point.
3) Klopp with his gengen press and winning the CL with a midfield of Milner, Henderson and Chamberlain.
These people are the Mozarts or Einsteins of their particular fields.
His only previous experience before taking on this job was Molde and Cardiff. That is showing.
Nice Post. I don't agree with everything you said but the "does not know how to affect change with the use of substitutes" line is something I agree with and it's a real worry for me.
Some of the team selections and tactics (or lack of) do leave me doubting Ole's ability to manage our team. The Europa Leagie Final was terrible and nothing since then has improved.
I expected us to lose today and that's a horrible feeling. Maguire....Jesus Christ!
We've needed a player like Tielemens for years now and we still have Matic!!!
So much money spent and so many problems still exist.
Another drink, I think.
He isn't that bad, the job is just bigger than him and requires more than he could offer. A lot of managers get burned by joining a top club because they aren't up for it.
He’s not that bad, he’s just not that good. He’s exactly how I’d imagine we would be if a random ex player without top flight experience took over and was backed with a lot of money - challenging for top four but no major honours.
Chelsea gave Super Frankie the job on a permanent basis straight off the bat. We only gave Ole the job after he had impressed on an interim basis.
It’s because at this level, for a club of THIS magnitude, sentiments should NOT be a consideration in decision making. Decisions should be made objectively, no matter how hard it looks on paper.
The club ignored this bit of the analysis when they appointed him, because if they did, they would not have appointed him. He does not have the track record at this level. They were hoping he would do well rather than expecting it.
Test: take away the fact that he had this history with us and re-run an anonymous interview for the manager’s job purely based on tactical understanding, track record etc. Invite other managers to apply. Pretend Ole never played for us etc2. He probably won’t have gotten the job in the first place.
Chelsea do this very well - they are run like a modern day football club. We are, emotionally, still stuck in the SAF days and I am sorry to say but in my opinion that approach is no longer suitable to compete in the modern game with all the new challenges.
The club ignored this bit of the analysis when they appointed him, because if they did, they would not have appointed him. He does not have the track record at this level. They were hoping he would do well rather than expecting it.
Test: take away the fact that he had this history with us and re-run an anonymous interview for the manager’s job purely based on tactical understanding, track record etc. Invite other managers to apply. Pretend Ole never played for us etc2. He probably won’t have gotten the job in the first place.
Chelsea do this very well - they are run like a modern day football club. We are, emotionally, still stuck in the SAF days and I am sorry to say but in my opinion that approach is no longer suitable to compete in the modern game with all the new challenges.
Could be a situation where the squad is good that the manager is unable to motivate the players because of the level they are capable (or have) performed at. The aura around United at the moment is that there is a crisis around the corner. The manager needs a win drastically.
Solskjaer
Pirlo
Southgate
Di Francesco
Lampard
Mazzarri
Are the worst manager in professional football
Pirlo
Southgate
Di Francesco
Lampard
Mazzarri
Are the worst manager in professional football
It’s like any industry. You have those that are great, those that are good, those that are average and those that are poor.
I think with Ole he’s genuinely not very intelligent or quick thinking… he’s a hard working coach whose earned his badges and knows the drills… but that’s it, he knows the drills, whereas great managers understand the drills and can expand on them or adapt them, and develop their own things.
It’s like two university students studying xyz subject. They both use textbooks, one reads it and gets to learn the subject in a memory type way and applies it to his/her essay.
The other is always thinking, he’s already thought of ideas and then reads and sees those very ideas he thought about in the text book… he knows and understands these ideas he applies them to his essay but then also adds new innovative ideas.
Clearly both will get careers in that fuild, but the latter will be the one destined for greater things and one day future students will be reading a textbook written by him.
I think with Ole he’s genuinely not very intelligent or quick thinking… he’s a hard working coach whose earned his badges and knows the drills… but that’s it, he knows the drills, whereas great managers understand the drills and can expand on them or adapt them, and develop their own things.
It’s like two university students studying xyz subject. They both use textbooks, one reads it and gets to learn the subject in a memory type way and applies it to his/her essay.
The other is always thinking, he’s already thought of ideas and then reads and sees those very ideas he thought about in the text book… he knows and understands these ideas he applies them to his essay but then also adds new innovative ideas.
Clearly both will get careers in that fuild, but the latter will be the one destined for greater things and one day future students will be reading a textbook written by him.
It’s not better than Jose though. Less points per game, two less trophies, worse football, and more money spent.
Even little kids know
Ehhh, I like Ole's football better than Jose. At least he gave us the occasional 5 goal win. Doesn't mean it's ultimately more effective, but Mourinho's football was just as bad, but without those high scoring wins. All the team of individual football criticism aimed at Ole is just as applicable to Mourinho, just with Mourinho being better defensively.
And this is someone who has wanted Ole out since being a caretaker.
Our board and some fans always wait until our managerial options dwindle. It's pathetic.