How big a priority has rebuilding our attack become?

It's a difficult task.

Assuming Ronaldo stays this summer, we're going to be in the market for a top young striker whose happy playing second fiddle to Ronaldo. Then we need more depth on the wings and cover for Bruno.

Nice and easy then.
 
I will be happy with Raphinha, Schick, Palhinha and Rice.
 
I think it's abundantly clear we need a striker. Ralf has said that and it doesn't take a genius. We have Ronaldo, that's it. I think he'll stay but we probably need another main man, whether he likes it or not. Ronaldo is the one that we should be managing, not the player that comes in. He has to be somebody that can propel us forward in the years to come so it would be foolhardy to buy on the basis of Ronaldo.

Our right side is appalling. I think there was some hope Sancho would work there but that doesn't look likely, he looks bright from the left. So without Greenwood we are sorely lacking. We've got half a player in Elanga. But really this is going to require a fully fledged, ready to go signing to balance out the likes of Elanga and Amad who should not be under pressure to carry that position.

The other thing is we're losing some depth. Martial, Cavani, Lingard. That requires some thought. Do we need somebody who can cover a few positions on top of the above? Maybe.

Then you've got RB looking shakey, the much maligned midfield area. Yep, there's a lot to do and chances are we will not succeed in doing it all. The new manager has to appraise what he can work with even if it's not ideal and prioritise the dire areas. We'll probably have to accept a few squad holes next season but improve the quality.
 
The entire side needs rebuilding. But yes the attack is in an absolute state.
 
I was going to start a thread in a similar vein, but since we have this one, I'll just post my thoughts here.

For me, it's about time the attackers started getting some heat. For a while now, we have had largely the same issue, which is breaking down teams who set-up in a low-block. Under Solskjaer, we developed into a very effective counter-attacking side, but it was often noted that we relied on moments of magic, luck or penalties to beat sides we should really have been blowing away.

At the time, many blamed the midfield. Now, it's certainly true that McTominay and Fred don't move the ball effectively enough, so we're not really here to have that debate. However, do they move the ball SO ineffectively that we can't possibly expect any more from our attackers? Especially against weaker sides, were dominating the ball was/is never really an issue, and we often have 70% possession.

At the start of this season, Solskjaer took further steps to try and address our inability to regularly dispatch non-top six opposition. We moved the defensive line even higher, we asked the midfielders to go and press high, we asked the full backs to push on and make underlapping runs, we asked Maguire (especially) to step into midfield with the ball. All of this puts extra pressure on the defence but is aimed at helping the attackers. Again, we saw very little from them. In the end, Solskjaer's lack of tactical nous left us massively exposed, and we ended up with the worst of both Worlds - we still struggled to create chances and we were horribly exposed at the back.

Now, it's always been the case in football that attackers get away very lightly compared to defenders. This is not news. However, we were especially guilty of it on this forum and at United. A defender can be fantastic for 90-minutes, yet will get hammered because some know-nothing pundit or idiot on here thinks they could have been half a yard closer to someone or further up the pitch after we concede a goal.

In contrast, Rashford has stunk the place out week after week for 2/3 seasons, but some would defend him because he had a 1 in 3 goal-scoring records, or had a goal contribution every two games, or some nonsense. Martial wanders around the pitch like it's an effort for him, complains about not playing CF, then manages one goal in something like 20 league games. Fernandes is infuriatingly wasteful, and it's actually becoming debatable for me whether his chaotic approach to the game is worth the guaranteed goal contribution per game you admittedly do generally get with him. Pogba, for all his talent, doesn't really effect games. We all remember his four assists against Leeds, but take those out and how many goals/assists does he have over the last three seasons? I don't know the answer, but I know it's not that many for a £90m player in a team who regularly have most of the ball. Sancho has come in and fair enough, needs time to settle. Has also been much improved lately, and has unbelievable technique, but if he can't convert that into goals and assists, what good is it?

Add to this the fact that we haven't signed a striker under 29 in a decade, and you start to wonder - why on Earth were we ever really focusing on the defence, and even the midfield to some extent? We have Ronaldo and Cavani at 37 and 34 respectively as a CF options, and yet we wonder why we don't score many goals? Absolute legends of the game, don't get me wrong, but football is increasingly a young man's game. I honestly think defenders will be happy to face this current Ronaldo. No pace, not going to hurt you in-behind, not great on the ball, doesn't really work hard to press you...your only real big concern is his aerial prowess, and even that seems to have deserted him lately.

Why, at no point, when we have struggled to break down these teams over the years, has there been any serious heat on the forwards, or our lack of proper forwards? It makes a huge difference, to have that striker who can really scare defenders with pace, brute strength, running in-behind or great hold-up play. It also makes a huge difference to have that player who can nick a goal from a half-chance, or be in the right place at the right time to score a cheap goal, or take the one chance we do create in a half. The reality is, once you get that opening goal, you usually then go on to beat teams like Watford et al by three of four, because they have to open up a little and/or they lose some focus/determination.

The reality is, the CF position is yet another position the club have bafflingly neglected over the years. It's incredible that with all of the money we have spent, we haven't signed a proper CF. Even now, we're talking about signing more defenders. Forget signing more defenders, we have five international CBs and four good FBs already. Are they perfect? No. But we're not currently dropping points because we can't defend, we're dropping points (again) because we can't score goals when it matters in tight games. Yes, we scored four against a poor Leeds side, and three at home to bottom of the table Burnley, but it's the Wolves at home or Watford at home-type games that are really, really hurting us. That's five points dropped, at home, in recent weeks. We scored one solitary goal at home against Southampton, another two points dropped. In those three games, we conceded two goals. I don't think that's unreasonable, especially since the Wolves goal came after we had started throwing bodies forwards late-on.

Sure, we'd all like to see a few more clean sheets, and I think this will come in-time under Ralf (or any serious manager), but I really don't think the odd goal we are conceding currently is the big problem.

We absolutely must go out and get a proper CF (or two) now. As I said, forget defenders, forget wide-forwards, forget a GK (for now). All of these positions are not perfect, but I don't think they are THE problem. We need a CM, clearly, but we HAVE to find at least one CF, in their prime, of the quality required to really hurt teams. If we keep kidding ourselves that the likes of Rashford and a 37yo Ronaldo will deliver, because we've this romanticised view of them as players, then we'll get what we deserve
 
I agree with those who think this is now the primary need, perhaps even more so than DM. It's the loss of Greenwood that really throws a wrench into things. With him, we'd have a credible top option at striker and also enough depth on the wings. We'd be looking maybe for one striker (if Ronaldo leaves), and it wouldn't necessarily even be the main starter. As things stand now, we'll need to get a clear-cut starting striker and a further useful attacker, preferably someone who can play on the wing too, which sounds a lot like 150m already.

Then, unless we're going to regress, we need to replace Pogba as well as upgrade deeper in the midfield, which looks a lot like another 100 m, if not more.

Even if we can ship out VdB, Martial and maybe Bailly for 60-70m, and with the large savings on the salary budget if Ronaldo, Cavani, Lingard and Pogba leave, this seems a tall order. As well as a lot of important new players to integrate at once, and with a new manager too. Not feeling terribly optimistic about this.
 
I was going to start a thread in a similar vein, but since we have this one, I'll just post my thoughts here.

For me, it's about time the attackers started getting some heat. For a while now, we have had largely the same issue, which is breaking down teams who set-up in a low-block. Under Solskjaer, we developed into a very effective counter-attacking side, but it was often noted that we relied on moments of magic, luck or penalties to beat sides we should really have been blowing away.

At the time, many blamed the midfield. Now, it's certainly true that McTominay and Fred don't move the ball effectively enough, so we're not really here to have that debate. However, do they move the ball SO ineffectively that we can't possibly expect any more from our attackers? Especially against weaker sides, were dominating the ball was/is never really an issue, and we often have 70% possession.

At the start of this season, Solskjaer took further steps to try and address our inability to regularly dispatch non-top six opposition. We moved the defensive line even higher, we asked the midfielders to go and press high, we asked the full backs to push on and make underlapping runs, we asked Maguire (especially) to step into midfield with the ball. All of this puts extra pressure on the defence but is aimed at helping the attackers. Again, we saw very little from them. In the end, Solskjaer's lack of tactical nous left us massively exposed, and we ended up with the worst of both Worlds - we still struggled to create chances and we were horribly exposed at the back.

Now, it's always been the case in football that attackers get away very lightly compared to defenders. This is not news. However, we were especially guilty of it on this forum and at United. A defender can be fantastic for 90-minutes, yet will get hammered because some know-nothing pundit or idiot on here thinks they could have been half a yard closer to someone or further up the pitch after we concede a goal.

In contrast, Rashford has stunk the place out week after week for 2/3 seasons, but some would defend him because he had a 1 in 3 goal-scoring records, or had a goal contribution every two games, or some nonsense. Martial wanders around the pitch like it's an effort for him, complains about not playing CF, then manages one goal in something like 20 league games. Fernandes is infuriatingly wasteful, and it's actually becoming debatable for me whether his chaotic approach to the game is worth the guaranteed goal contribution per game you admittedly do generally get with him. Pogba, for all his talent, doesn't really effect games. We all remember his four assists against Leeds, but take those out and how many goals/assists does he have over the last three seasons? I don't know the answer, but I know it's not that many for a £90m player in a team who regularly have most of the ball. Sancho has come in and fair enough, needs time to settle. Has also been much improved lately, and has unbelievable technique, but if he can't convert that into goals and assists, what good is it?

Add to this the fact that we haven't signed a striker under 29 in a decade, and you start to wonder - why on Earth were we ever really focusing on the defence, and even the midfield to some extent? We have Ronaldo and Cavani at 37 and 34 respectively as a CF options, and yet we wonder why we don't score many goals? Absolute legends of the game, don't get me wrong, but football is increasingly a young man's game. I honestly think defenders will be happy to face this current Ronaldo. No pace, not going to hurt you in-behind, not great on the ball, doesn't really work hard to press you...your only real big concern is his aerial prowess, and even that seems to have deserted him lately.

Why, at no point, when we have struggled to break down these teams over the years, has there been any serious heat on the forwards, or our lack of proper forwards? It makes a huge difference, to have that striker who can really scare defenders with pace, brute strength, running in-behind or great hold-up play. It also makes a huge difference to have that player who can nick a goal from a half-chance, or be in the right place at the right time to score a cheap goal, or take the one chance we do create in a half. The reality is, once you get that opening goal, you usually then go on to beat teams like Watford et al by three of four, because they have to open up a little and/or they lose some focus/determination.

The reality is, the CF position is yet another position the club have bafflingly neglected over the years. It's incredible that with all of the money we have spent, we haven't signed a proper CF. Even now, we're talking about signing more defenders. Forget signing more defenders, we have five international CBs and four good FBs already. Are they perfect? No. But we're not currently dropping points because we can't defend, we're dropping points (again) because we can't score goals when it matters in tight games. Yes, we scored four against a poor Leeds side, and three at home to bottom of the table Burnley, but it's the Wolves at home or Watford at home-type games that are really, really hurting us. That's five points dropped, at home, in recent weeks. We scored one solitary goal at home against Southampton, another two points dropped. In those three games, we conceded two goals. I don't think that's unreasonable, especially since the Wolves goal came after we had started throwing bodies forwards late-on.

Sure, we'd all like to see a few more clean sheets, and I think this will come in-time under Ralf (or any serious manager), but I really don't think the odd goal we are conceding currently is the big problem.

We absolutely must go out and get a proper CF (or two) now. As I said, forget defenders, forget wide-forwards, forget a GK (for now). All of these positions are not perfect, but I don't think they are THE problem. We need a CM, clearly, but we HAVE to find at least one CF, in their prime, of the quality required to really hurt teams. If we keep kidding ourselves that the likes of Rashford and a 37yo Ronaldo will deliver, because we've this romanticised view of them as players, then we'll get what we deserve

I don't know how many times this has already been pointed out, but it's simply not true for last season that United was a team who was most successful when they could play a counterattack game, or that a very high proportion of our goals were counterattack goals, or that we struggled for results particularly against teams playing a low block. Only City (and, absurdly, Chelsea under Lampard) had a better record than we did against lower-half teams last season. We broke them down better and more consistently than either Liverpool, or Chelsea under Tuchel, or any other team not called Man City, did. It may not always have looked pretty, but we generally got the job done.
 
I don't know how many times this has already been pointed out, but it's simply not true for last season that United was a team who was most successful when they could play a counterattack game, or that a very high proportion of our goals were counterattack goals, or that we struggled for results particularly against teams playing a low block. Only City (and, absurdly, Chelsea under Lampard) had a better record than we did against lower-half teams last season. We broke them down better and more consistently than either Liverpool, or Chelsea under Tuchel, or any other team not called Man City, did. It may not always have looked pretty, but we generally got the job done.

Right...but we're talking about this, I assume, in the context of us winning trophies. To win the Premier League trophy nowadays, you need to be targeting about 90+ points. Given that there are 114pts available total and you will play City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal for 30pts, that means you best be damn near perfect against the other 14 teams!

I do generally accept your argument if it's 'we probably were not as bad as made out'...but is it still a problem? I'd say so, compared with City, who we're going to have to get the better of to win a title. It's certainly been a problem this year, we're just not scoring enough goals.
 
Right...but we're talking about this, I assume, in the context of us winning trophies. To win the Premier League trophy nowadays, you need to be targeting about 90+ points. Given that there are 114pts available total and you will play City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal for 30pts, that means you best be damn near perfect against the other 14 teams!

I do generally accept your argument if it's 'we probably were not as bad as made out'...but is it still a problem? I'd say so, compared with City, who we're going to have to get the better of to win a title. It's certainly been a problem this year, we're just not scoring enough goals.

Sure. But in the context of winning titles, pretty much every aspect of our game is a problem. :(
 
This is a crazy stat but no player in our squad other than Cristiano Ronaldo has scored more than 1 goal in Europe this season.

It's just mind blowing that we have a real chance of qualyfing for the QF stage.
 
As others have mentioned losing two 100 million assets in Rashford (he may still regain form) and Greenwood is not something any club can brush off, especially as badly run as ours.
 
Sure. But in the context of winning titles, pretty much every aspect of our game is a problem. :(

I agree, but 'pound for pound', I feel we would see maximum benefit from signing Declan Rice and then a couple of 'proper' CFs, in their prime.

My original post was really about highlighting the fact that for years, we've complained about our defence, our goalkeeper, our midfield, our full backs etc....and we have signed multiple players in these positions to try to rectify the problems.

The one thing we haven't done for a long time, and it baffles me really, is sign a proper CF. You have to go back to RvP in 2013, and that was only really ever intended to be a short-term fix. It's amazing really, for two decades SAF insisted on us having the best strikers in the business, we signed so many during his time and would often have 3/4 top strikers at the club at once (remember Yorke/Cole/Sheringham/Solskjaer or Ronaldo, Rooney, Berbatov, Tevez). For the last decade, since his departure, it's like we see it as an afterthought. It did just dawn on me that we signed Lukaku, but we quickly aborted on that plan and he's the one and only player I can think of that we have signed in the CF position under the age of 30 for so long.

I am not even necessarily talking about someone who scores 20+ goals. If they do, great. Really, I want someone with energy, power, speed, a good first-touch, awareness etc....who can actually function like a modern CF in our team
 
Will hold my hands up I didn't expect Edi to feature quite so little and then of course who saw the Mason thing coming either. Looks very stupid letting Martial go out on loan in that situation.
Martial was loaned out before the Greenwood news. That's why Lingard stayed.
 
I hope this season doesn't have a knock-on effect on Ronaldo. If he had 2 games a week at Madrid Zidane would play him for 1 game & maybe 60 minutes in the other & he'd get the best out of him. Juve also rotated him & got plenty of goals out of him. Right now we're playing him 90 minutes 3 times a week because as you say, we have no choice. If we run him into the ground then there may no longer be anything to get out of him next season. We're in an awful position of, mostly, our own making with reliance on Cavani & the naivety to send out Martial. Sure, the Greenwood situation isn't our fault but we should have cancelled the Martial deal as soon as the news broke.
You can't just unilaterally cancel a lot of loan deals. The other team needs to agree to it. See Chelsea not being able to get their own player back in January. Ridiculous to blame the club for the Martial/Greenwood thing.
 
Your post got me thinking. Our current forwards are both past their prime. Truly world class in their prime but 36 and 30 something. The last forward I remember us signing before them was Odion Ighalo, he was probably 30 at the time, his last club before China was Watford and he played 12 games for us. That probably puts him in the class of ordinary to below average for the Premier League. Before him I think we bought Zlatan Ibrahimovic, again he must have been mid 30's when he came to us, so again, was world class in his prime - but not when he came to us - although good but not long term.

We all know that Rashford and Lingard despite both having said that they are centre forwards they aren't.

So, I am wondering when did we last have a striker that was top class and in his prime ? Whilst the league table says goals against is a worse statistic for us this season than goals scored it seems that our striker position has just been one stop-gap after another.