Henderson reportedly stormed out of training after being told he wasn't playing against Villa

You can't just storm out of training when you disagree with the team selection. We've heard stories of some of Ferguson's players being upset they were benched for big games, and they all pretty much describe feeling bemused, but accepting the decision of the manager.

Storming out of training is defying a manager, and undermines him.
 
How does one storm out of training? He was saving balls midway then decide to quit in rage after being told in the middle of the training session that he wouldn’t start, or was he doing star jumps and then walked away? I thought the team sheet will only be announced on the morning of a game?
 
Wasn't he sick? Thought I heard someone say that? How does one storm out for not being selected to play after reporting sick and unable to play?

This seems a non-story to me. It's high time people started suing these papers for their "reported" fictitious events
 
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Goes back to the point if we aren’t going to use him, loan him out or sell him whilst his stock is high. We have 4 keepers, why?

The club’s policy on selling players is so poor. I’d say the worst in the league. We could have easily sold him for £20-25m after his loan at Sheffield United.

Plus I think given games he would have been a decent keeper for us. He may not have the reaction saves as De Gea but he certainly commands his box better and as well as better distribution.
 
Josep Dowling said:
Goes back to the point if we aren’t going to use him, loan him out or sell him whilst his stock is high. We have 4 keepers, why?

The club’s policy on selling players is so poor. I’d say the worst in the league. We could have easily sold him for £20-25m after his loan at Sheffield United.

Plus I think given games he would have been a decent keeper for us. He may not have the reaction saves as De Gea but he certainly commands his box better and as well as better distribution.
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Chelsea were linked with him for about 50 million, so probably more than that.
 
In all fairness Henderson is not the quality we need and despite his new found form DDG just isnt imposing enough in his 5 yard box and with crosses. And sometimes in one on ones he goes for this stupid futsal keeper stance instead of just going for the striker. If we could sing somebody like Oblak and sell DDG to Real it would be best for all parties. And as far as Henderson goes there are a lot of Gks there who would love to be Man Utds back ups
 
if he was smart, he should have not signed that contract extension and force the club to sell him, he was a proven PL GK, plenty of PL clubs would buy him and offer him a guaranteed number 1 spot.
 
Skills said:
Henderson is a good keeper, potentially very good but if he was playing for another club he wouldn't be player I'd want us to spend £50m+ on to be our keeper.
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This is spot on.

Why this guy gets attention is beyond me. Was happy for him to get a chance under Ole so we could see him make a difference but he was average at best and certainly no better than an off form DDG without the ceiling that DDG has.

He had his chance and wasn’t good enough. Move him on if he’s not happy as number 2.

Admire his self confidence and drive but he’s not worth the hassle (if true). He’s no better than Romero or Kuszczak.
 
The Midnight Rambler said:
This is spot on.

Why this guy gets attention is beyond me. Was happy for him to get a chance under Ole so we could see him make a difference but he was average at best and certainly no better than an off form DDG without the ceiling that DDG has.

He had his chance and wasn’t good enough. Move him on if he’s not happy as number 2.

Admire his self confidence and drive but he’s not worth the hassle (if true). He’s no better than Romero or Kuszczak.
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He is obviously better than those two as he displayed on loan but if the young man wants to go to another club as Big Dave looks like he has his mojo back then fair play to him.
 
Hendo is exactly what you don't need as a second keeper.

You need a keeper who accepts his fate as number 2 and steps up in the cups when needed.
 
sillwuka said:
Hendo is exactly what you don't need as a second keeper.

You need a keeper who accepts his fate as number 2 and steps up in the cups when needed.
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Hendo was such a goalkeeper. He had spent most of his time on loan at Stockport, Grimsby, Shrewsbury and Sheffield United. He had a far less attractive CV to his predecessor Romero who was an Argentinian international, a FIFA U20 WC winner, an Europa League cup winner and had played with Monaco and Sampdoria.

The problem here is who on earth whispered in his ear that he was the best thing since sliced bread? Also, why on earth did we gave him that silly salary despite having done nothing to prove his worth?
 
The Midnight Rambler said:
This is spot on.

Why this guy gets attention is beyond me. Was happy for him to get a chance under Ole so we could see him make a difference but he was average at best and certainly no better than an off form DDG without the ceiling that DDG has.

He had his chance and wasn’t good enough. Move him on if he’s not happy as number 2.

Admire his self confidence and drive but he’s not worth the hassle (if true). He’s no better than Romero or Kuszczak.
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He wasn't good enough? I love this one, it's like when people bring up the Salah goal but conveniently forget that DDG was throwing them in for 3 years, even this season there's been plenty, with Arsenal being the worst goal I've ever seen any keeper concede at any level.

It's doesn't make sense, that he wasn't any better. when Henderson played played the team on average conceded less goals, kept more clean sheets and won more games than with DDG with the same defenders in front of him. Is that not doing better?

With Henderson in goal the goals conceded per game average was around .7. With DDG last season it was closer to 1.5. This season with DDG apparently performing miracles in there, guess what, the goals conceded is back up to 1.5 with him in goal and pretty much the same players in front of him again.

Almost like there is a lot more to goal keeping than just making saves. Which DDG is really top notch at, outside of that everything else about his game is worse than average. He's never going to be the right fit for a team that wants to keep possession, press high and be on the attack more, it's all the reasons why he doesn't get played for Spain.

Henderson has every right to be pissed off, but it's no reason for him to act unprofessionally. If all the reports are true he should be shown the door.
 
If this is true, I would not put it past Ragnick to have snubbed Henderson to gauge his reaction. His job is after all to fix the mess we've put ourselves in. I guess he now knows that Henderson is not what he needs?
 
Oranges038 said:
He wasn't good enough? I love this one, it's like when people bring up the Salah goal but conveniently forget that DDG was throwing them in for 3 years, even this season there's been plenty, with Arsenal being the worst goal I've ever seen any keeper concede at any level.

It's doesn't make sense, that he wasn't any better. when Henderson played played the team on average conceded less goals, kept more clean sheets and won more games than with DDG with the same defenders in front of him. Is that not doing better?

With Henderson in goal the goals conceded per game average was around .7. With DDG last season it was closer to 1.5. This season with DDG apparently performing miracles in there, guess what, the goals conceded is back up to 1.5 with him in goal and pretty much the same players in front of him again.

Almost like there is a lot more to goal keeping than just making saves. Which DDG is really top notch at, outside of that everything else about his game is worse than average. He's never going to be the right fit for a team that wants to keep possession, press high and be on the attack more, it's all the reasons why he doesn't get played for Spain.

Henderson has every right to be pissed off, but it's no reason for him to act unprofessionally. If all the reports are true he should be shown the door.
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What had he done to prove himself at United? He did well with Sheffield United but so did Foster with Watford or Taibi with Piacenza and Venezia. Playing with small clubs is relatively easy as compared with Manchester United.

I am not suggesting that Henderson doesn't have talent. However he hasn't proven himself for him to deserve being Manchester United first team keeper. Its a shame that the boy was hyped to the ridiculous.
 
Oranges038 said:
He wasn't good enough? I love this one, it's like when people bring up the Salah goal but conveniently forget that DDG was throwing them in for 3 years, even this season there's been plenty, with Arsenal being the worst goal I've ever seen any keeper concede at any level.

It's doesn't make sense, that he wasn't any better. when Henderson played played the team on average conceded less goals, kept more clean sheets and won more games than with DDG with the same defenders in front of him. Is that not doing better?

With Henderson in goal the goals conceded per game average was around .7. With DDG last season it was closer to 1.5. This season with DDG apparently performing miracles in there, guess what, the goals conceded is back up to 1.5 with him in goal and pretty much the same players in front of him again.

Almost like there is a lot more to goal keeping than just making saves. Which DDG is really top notch at, outside of that everything else about his game is worse than average. He's never going to be the right fit for a team that wants to keep possession, press high and be on the attack more, it's all the reasons why he doesn't get played for Spain.

Henderson has every right to be pissed off, but it's no reason for him to act unprofessionally. If all the reports are true he should be shown the door.
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Using goals conceded to stats to argue Hendo is better than Dave :lol:

Yeah last season Dave was quite shit, but Hendo's got absolutely nothing on him in the form he's in now. You're aware shit teams will concede more goals and this season we are proper shit?
 
Don't blame him. He's a very good goalkeeper rotting his career away on the bench. I'm assuming promises were made for him to get games. Hopefully a good club will come along. He makes the defence more assured then De Gea but we don't know if he can make the saves De Gea makes, as he never got a consistent run of games. But he has made some great saves himself. Guess we'll never know unless De Gea falls apart again.
 
Henderson, I feel, was sold a dream that wasn’t going to happen - United #1. The contract he has been given would be a first choice keepers at almost any other club. It’s a disgustingly big contract for an average GK which will bite the club on the arse once again.
Ole needs to shoulder the blame for Henderson’s expectations because he lauded him so loudly as a future #1 based on very little time in a United shirt.
Regardless of this story, he needs to go. He could forge a very good career at another club and could well get back in the national side, but he’s not better than DDG and he clearly isn’t happy been #2. He’s going to be difficult to shift on that wage.
 
devilish said:
What had he done to prove himself at United? He did well with Sheffield United but so did Foster with Watford or Taibi with Piacenza and Venezia. Playing with small clubs is relatively easy as compared with Manchester United.

I am not suggesting that Henderson doesn't have talent. However he hasn't proven himself for him to deserve being Manchester United first team keeper. Its a shame that the boy was hyped to the ridiculous.
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VanDeBank said:
Using goals conceded to stats to argue Hendo is better than Dave :lol:

Yeah last season Dave was quite shit, but Hendo's got absolutely nothing on him in the form he's in now. You're aware shit teams will concede more goals and this season we are proper shit?
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What did Ramsdale do to prove he should be No.1 at Arsenal when he was worse for a relegated SU than Henderson was when they stayed up? Now, Arsenal are playing better and are higher up the league with him playing in goal.

This season despite all his saves, DDG is actually not performing any better stylistically or statsically than last or any year before. Visually on the pitch, it's panic stations when the ball comes near the box because he doesn't communicate, command his area at all, doesn't even come for balls in his 6.

To me. It's quite simple when he played last year, on average Utd conceded less goals, kept more clean sheets and won more games. Visibly on the pitch, the defence looked more organised and assured, and well all the stats back that up.

Please explain to me how that is not performing better or being better for the team than DDG?

What has Simon done to be playing ahead of him for Spain?

I also love the references to Foster, DDG is more like Foster than Henderson, Schmeichel describes it perfectly here. It's the exact reasons Enrique doesn't play him for Spain, just in case you are wodnering.

 
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devilish said:
Hendo was such a goalkeeper. He had spent most of his time on loan at Stockport, Grimsby, Shrewsbury and Sheffield United. He had a far less attractive CV to his predecessor Romero who was an Argentinian international, a FIFA U20 WC winner, an Europa League cup winner and had played with Monaco and Sampdoria.

The problem here is who on earth whispered in his ear that he was the best thing since sliced bread? Also, why on earth did we gave him that silly salary despite having done nothing to prove his worth?
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I didn't understand why we offered that contract. We should have sold him the summer after his loan with a buy back clause.
 
Oranges038 said:
What did Ramsdale do to prove he should be No.1 at Arsenal when he was worse for a relegated SU than Henderson was when they stayed up? Now, Arsenal are playing better and are higher up the league with him playing in goal.

This season despite all his saves, DDG is actually not performing any better stylistically or statsically than last or any year before. Visually on the pitch, it's panic stations when the ball comes near the box because he doesn't communicate, command his area at all, doesn't even come for balls in his 6.

To me. It's quite simple when he played last year, on average Utd conceded less goals, kept more clean sheets and won more games. Visibly on the pitch, the defence looked more organised and assured, and well all the stats back that up.

Please explain to me how that is not performing better or being better for the team than DDG?

What has Simon done to be playing ahead of him for Spain?

I also love the references to Foster, DDG is more like Foster than Henderson, Schmeichel describes it perfectly here. It's the exact reasons Enrique doesn't play him for Spain, just in case you are wodnering.

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Taibi won Serie A keeper of the year at a time when the Serie A was littered by WC keepers while Foster did so well with Watford to persuade SAF to give him the top 1 spot. Both achieved more then Henderson achieved at this point. However both failed because of the same thing ie lack of mentality. Schmeichel used to call the GK role as the loneliness job in the world and we all know how much criticism was and is still thrown at DDG despite him bailing us out for years.

Hendo had lost his chance under Ole and has reportedly thrown a hissy fit under Rangnick. That's not the mentality of a United no 1 keeper.
 

Nice of you to pick out the one bit I was wrong on and reply to it.

What about the rest?
 
devilish said:
Taibi won Serie A keeper of the year at a time when the Serie A was littered by WC keepers while Foster did so well with Watford to persuade SAF to give him the top 1 spot. Both achieved more then Henderson achieved at this point. However both failed because of the same thing ie lack of mentality. Schmeichel used to call the GK role as the loneliness job in the world and we all know how much criticism was and is still thrown at DDG despite him bailing us out for years.

Hendo had lost his chance under Ole and has reportedly thrown a hissy fit under Rangnick. That's not the mentality of a United no 1 keeper.
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Why does DDG not play for Spain?

Why did he resist working with a guy who tried to help him work on his all round game? Resting on having 1 redeeming attribute is not the mentality of a Utd player. There's too many of them at the club right now.
 
Oranges038 said:
He wasn't good enough? I love this one, it's like when people bring up the Salah goal but conveniently forget that DDG was throwing them in for 3 years, even this season there's been plenty, with Arsenal being the worst goal I've ever seen any keeper concede at any level.

It's doesn't make sense, that he wasn't any better. when Henderson played played the team on average conceded less goals, kept more clean sheets and won more games than with DDG with the same defenders in front of him. Is that not doing better?

With Henderson in goal the goals conceded per game average was around .7. With DDG last season it was closer to 1.5. This season with DDG apparently performing miracles in there, guess what, the goals conceded is back up to 1.5 with him in goal and pretty much the same players in front of him again.

Almost like there is a lot more to goal keeping than just making saves. Which DDG is really top notch at, outside of that everything else about his game is worse than average. He's never going to be the right fit for a team that wants to keep possession, press high and be on the attack more, it's all the reasons why he doesn't get played for Spain.

Henderson has every right to be pissed off, but it's no reason for him to act unprofessionally. If all the reports are true he should be shown the door.
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Some solid points and in reply, without trying to make this a ‘he said /she said’ race to the bottom as we have clearly different views… for me it’s far more than the Salah goal.

There were several goals he was directly at fault for which media seemed to brush over in a way they didn’t when DDG was having lows, despite the huge credit DDG had in the bank.

And yes, I agree about your DDG points to why he isn’t Spanish number 1. I’ve also read some great insight critiquing DDG about how his long ball distribution is superb but his short ball and quick change of passing angles is lacking, plus he is not proactive enough.

With that said, I’d argue with full conviction that he’s still better (and definitely again this season) than DH and the goals conceded stats need far more context such as opponents faced, distanced and number of shots faced, whether these were clear chances and crucially how many were the direct fault of the GK rather than a poor team display.

The main plus point I see people pitch for DH his apparent proactivity for crosses but I didn’t see this as such an advantage over DDG that it improved us. Minor advantage at best that overall didn’t justify being first choice when compared to all of DDG’s other strengths. Even more so with DDG now on better form.

My final point was on the eye test, DH seemed to shrink when playing for us and had several other errors directly his fault.
 
Whatever! If this is true, just feck off from the club - one less problem for Ralph to deal with.
 
The whole, 'full of self confidence and backs himself to be the best keeper in the country' was undeniably attractive at one point. Now, I'm only interested in guys who shut up, keep their heads down and work their arses off. If he's genuinely throwing strops a few weeks into a new manager's reign, he can do one. I'll take Tom Heaton.
 
Oranges038 said:
Nice of you to pick out the one bit I was wrong on and reply to it.

What about the rest?
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The stats just back up what everyone with eyeballs has seen. That DDG has massively improved his form.
Him vs Hendo was debatable last season, but right now De God is way above him.

I agree DGG has flaws, but replacing him with a worse GK because of that is insane.
 
That Twitter thread is basically just further proof that statistics do not give the full picture of a goalkeeper. City’s second goal is one of the worst goals any team has conceded all season, first it’s a simple catch from the cross if he bothers to leave his line and second it’s a relatively simple save if he adjusts his body correctly, yet it’s not in the top 3 apparently.

Likewise, as a recently example (I know it was FA Cup) but theoretically had Watkins scored from Lindelofs bad touch on Monday night, that wouldn’t have gone down as a negative DDG statistic when in reality it was dreadful goalkeeping. Similar to Atalanta second goal in the away gfame

As for the Almiron save having a 34% save probability, that’s insane in itself. It was a shot that you’d expect most top level goalkeepers to make, nowhere near the corner, good height & distance and isn’t one I’d consider in DDGs top 10 this season in reality.

I don’t think anyone will say DDG isn’t having a much better season, certainly in the early stages of the season, but there have been enough negatives in his game over the last couple of months that Henderson had every right to be angry to be left out of the Villa Cup game in my view.
 
Oranges038 said:
Why does DDG not play for Spain?

Why did he resist working with a guy who tried to help him work on his all round game? Resting on having 1 redeeming attribute is not the mentality of a Utd player. There's too many of them at the club right now.
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DDG is far from perfect but he had bailed us (and still does) for years. Hendo has done nothing in training or on the pitch to threaten that. As I said in the initial post some one had done a huge disservice to him and us by filling his head with this first team nonsense.
 
JB7 said:
That Twitter thread is basically just further proof that statistics do not give the full picture of a goalkeeper. City’s second goal is one of the worst goals any team has conceded all season, first it’s a simple catch from the cross if he bothers to leave his line and second it’s a relatively simple save if he adjusts his body correctly, yet it’s not in the top 3 apparently.

Likewise, as a recently example (I know it was FA Cup) but theoretically had Watkins scored from Lindelofs bad touch on Monday night, that wouldn’t have gone down as a negative DDG statistic when in reality it was dreadful goalkeeping. Similar to Atalanta second goal in the away gfame

As for the Almiron save having a 34% save probability, that’s insane in itself. It was a shot that you’d expect most top level goalkeepers to make, nowhere near the corner, good height & distance and isn’t one I’d consider in DDGs top 10 this season in reality.

I don’t think anyone will say DDG isn’t having a much better season, certainly in the early stages of the season, but there have been enough negatives in his game over the last couple of months that Henderson had every right to be angry to be left out of the Villa Cup game in my view.
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We're discussing whether Hendo should replace him.

Like I said, DDG isn't a brilliant goalkeeper, but he's far from our biggest problem and it makes no sense to replace him with a bang average GK like Hendo.

It was debatable last season (Because Dave was so shit) but this season DDG has improved and it's not even close.
 
Despite being on decent wages, Deano is not happy to just collect his wages and rot on the bench. If we are not going to play him regularly, let him leave on loan or permanently. He needs game time and needs it badly.
 
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soapythecat said:
Henderson, I feel, was sold a dream that wasn’t going to happen - United #1. The contract he has been given would be a first choice keepers at almost any other club. It’s a disgustingly big contract for an average GK which will bite the club on the arse once again.
Ole needs to shoulder the blame for Henderson’s expectations because he lauded him so loudly as a future #1 based on very little time in a United shirt.
Regardless of this story, he needs to go. He could forge a very good career at another club and could well get back in the national side, but he’s not better than DDG and he clearly isn’t happy been #2. He’s going to be difficult to shift on that wage.
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Basically this in my opinion.

I get the feeling that Solskjaer’s desire to keep everyone happy and not have to make tough calls contributed to what has seemingly happened. I have no idea why Henderson didn’t play the FA Cup game other than Ralf was punishing him for these leaks to the media which he is allegedly responsible for.

The goalkeeeper situation is bit of an awkward one anyway as DDG seems to have arrested that clear decline he’s been having somewhat yet his weaknesses remain, and then Henderson as the exciting young prospect addresses those DDG weaknesses yet does some questionable things too… Remember the Liverpool home league game last year when he gave Salah fecking half the goal to aim at in a 1v1?
 
VanDeBank said:
We're discussing whether Hendo should replace him.

Like I said, DDG isn't a brilliant goalkeeper, but he's far from our biggest problem and it makes no sense to replace him with a bang average GK like Hendo.

It was debatable last season (Because Dave was so shit) but this season DDG has improved and it's not even close.
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Bang average is incredibly harsh given every defensive performance metric improved with him in goal last season, almost as if the defenders finally had a goalkeeper they had faith in behind them. DDG has improved this season there is no doubt but there are multiple instances almost every game where we concede opportunities through him not being a proactive goalkeeper - another example, think Maguire at Newcastle losing the ball in the left back area, terrible defending obviously but instinct is to pass to goalkeeper and DDG didn’t make himself available, hence Maguire panicked. With Henderson or even Romero in goal there, it’s passed back and dealt with before there is even a hint of an opportunity.
 
Oranges038 said:
Why does DDG not play for Spain?

Why did he resist working with a guy who tried to help him work on his all round game? Resting on having 1 redeeming attribute is not the mentality of a Utd player. There's too many of them at the club right now.
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De Gea doesn't start for Spain for the same reason he lost his place at Man Utd.
 
JB7 said:
Bang average is incredibly harsh given every defensive performance metric improved with him in goal last season, almost as if the defenders finally had a goalkeeper they had faith in behind them. DDG has improved this season there is no doubt but there are multiple instances almost every game where we concede opportunities through him not being a proactive goalkeeper - another example, think Maguire at Newcastle losing the ball in the left back area, terrible defending obviously but instinct is to pass to goalkeeper and DDG didn’t make himself available, hence Maguire panicked. With Henderson or even Romero in goal there, it’s passed back and dealt with before there is even a hint of an opportunity.
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Bit rich blaming DDG for Maguire's mistake.
 
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