Gaming Gran Turismo 5

Continued from the F1 thread.

The demo? Well there was the TT at the end of last year, but that was just you on your own, and it has car feel. AI. we'll have to see. I don't have a clue if they will release a demo, but they seem to be showing it off enough. In the US apparently they have demo stations in almost every store, with an old build.

I don't see how you doubt it, as we've said before, physics models for all aspects of how cars behave are public domain, it's not complicated. You could probably run the whole thing on 1 SPU. :D

As as I've said plenty of times before, it's not the physic modelling as such, it's what they do with it.

I'm more interested in if it's competing directly with Forza (in which case, even if they match it GT5 will be brilliant), or if it's still along the PGR lines. Not that PGR is shit, far from it, infact a hell of a lot of people think it's better than Forza and on a lot of levels it is. Either way GT5 will be a beast of a game, but it has an effect on how soon I'll get it.
 
Well, it's never going to be a full on simulation, as nobody would buy it in the numbers that it sells. What it has to try to do is strike a balance, but how much effort do they put into the simulation side that will only satisfy 10 to 20% of their audience? We'll have to wait and see.
 
Well, it's never going to be a full on simulation, as nobody would buy it in the numbers that it sells. What it has to try to do is strike a balance, but how much effort do they put into the simulation side that will only satisfy 10 to 20% of their audience? We'll have to wait and see.

That's what I've been getting at all along though. Forza isn't really a sim, although it does have it's moments (like the excellent tyre simulation).

Striking a balance has always been my main point, but there are differences. I don't need to tell you it's not just Sim/Arcade, there's many variances in between. I want GT5 to be closer to Forza, because for me the actual racing and car handling in a driving game is the almighty. For others, choosing from 800 cars and not worrying about a diff setup is what they want.

The later vastly out number the former (which is why it'll get 10/10 reviews regardless), but that doesn't stop me wanting what I want from the game. Even if it does offend a number of ignorant fanboys looking on, who automatically assume I hate the PS3 and think GT5 will be shit :lol:
 
I love forza to bits and still play it now but they have over done the loss of traction and brake lock ups with all assists off.

It just isn't as hard as they make out to drive a saloon around gleaming perfect tarmac.

You literally have to tiptoe round corners at 30-40mph still hearing tires screach that you know you own daily driver would piss round at 40, no sound no problem, I do love it though, but forza 2 dealt withhigh downforace racers better for me.

hope GT veers toward sim but not sim by making it harder than real life to take a corner.

Race pro is the best sim on consoles for me even above forza but its a dog arse in many other area's including most importantly dev support. Massive shame
 
Days of Thunder.

Now that was a real driving simulator.
 
I love forza to bits and still play it now but they have over done the loss of traction and brake lock ups with all assists off.

It just isn't as hard as they make out to drive a saloon around gleaming perfect tarmac.

You literally have to tiptoe round corners at 30-40mph still hearing tires screach that you know you own daily driver would piss round at 40, no sound no problem, I do love it though, but forza 2 dealt withhigh downforace racers better for me.

Most of these types of problems people have had with Forza can be solved with setting up the cars better. For example, from the off nearly all the cars need the Front anti-roll bars adjusted by roughly a third. It's to do with the centre of gravity in the cars being lower so they don't roll, but you can overcome it and regain traction without handling loss.

I've got an E-36 M3 on it set up and it's as close to the real thing as I've ever experienced in a game. Well until GT5 hopefully!


(I'm talking about 2 though, not the inferior 3).
 
As per the comments though, Weaste, how many of those are Supras and Skylines though? Held back getting FIFA on Xbox at release night and ordered it with a PS3 so will be ready I'm for next month. Always been a fan of the series since day one but have to say Forza is now my new favourite and the best racing game I've ever played so it has a lot to do to convince me again.

Disappointed it doesn't have auctions to buy each others cars and the like but also hope it doesn't have the old GT thing of go round 100mph hit the barrier but still carry on like nothings happened. Forza is a real challenge and it makes gameplay better IMO, games are more to me than just refreshed graphics. But we'll see, looking forward to it, if its a let down I can always just ebay the console I guess.
 
As per the comments though, Weaste, how many of those are Supras and Skylines though? Held back getting FIFA on Xbox at release night and ordered it with a PS3 so will be ready I'm for next month. Always been a fan of the series since day one but have to say Forza is now my new favourite and the best racing game I've ever played so it has a lot to do to convince me again.

Disappointed it doesn't have auctions to buy each others cars and the like but also hope it doesn't have the old GT thing of go round 100mph hit the barrier but still carry on like nothings happened. Forza is a real challenge and it makes gameplay better IMO, games are more to me than just refreshed graphics. But we'll see, looking forward to it, if its a let down I can always just ebay the console I guess.

Having 20-30 skylines and supra's doesn't detract from the point that the game still had nearly 400 more unique cars then any other game thus far.
 
Little Fizzy bit is starting to tingle in anticipation.

Going to do a couple of track overlays. Some of these may not be in GT5, but I still love them.

octrmidfieldeg4.gif


Passing points.

Turn 1,5 and 9.

Has to be one of my all time favorites in Gran Turismo. It really is a classic flowing style circuit with some heavy braking and quick changes of directions.

As you head down the main straight you hit the first passing opportunity in turn 1. At first glance its a regular single apex corner, but the exit tightens drastically forcing the driver to think about getting on the throttle slightly later. If you want to pass here, your best bet is probably on the outside and performing a criss cross. The line is everything on this corner and on the inside you risk over shooting or getting a poor exit which will punish you massively up until Turn 5.

Turn 2 is short fast right hander that follows on to the quick flip flop of turns 3 and 4. Ride the curbs of 3 and 4 to try and straight line as it leads in to the second overtaking opportunity at turn 5. As stated previously, a good exit from Turn 1 is imperative to pull a pass of going into 5. Its 100% throttle throughout this entire sequence of corners so giving away speed early is not really a smart option.

Turns 5 and 6 are alot more forgiving then turn 1. Concrete covers the ground to the left of the road as you cross the bridge and enter the tunnel which gives a smooth exit possible even when overtaking into 5. Be warned though that stick to the concrete throughout the tunnel can lead to a poor entry to the double apex turn 7.

7. A sweeping left hander that requires a smooth style as the car has a tendency to understeer mid corner. While the corner is very straight forward, its also very easy to make a mistake on. Its then a quick sharp shute down into the left right chicane of 8 followed by the last braking zone of turn 9.

You best bet to pass in 9 is to take the inside line. There is very little room on the outside until entering the tunnel so running up the inside is a must. To even get a shot down here a good exit from turn 7 is needed. Again its 100% throttle from the exit of 7 until the braking zone of 9. I'd recommend not showing your hand until after the chicane sequence as its only a short steer before slamming on the brakes into the almost hairpin turn 9.

The rest of the lap is straight forward. 10 and 11 are a flat out single file combination of corners. Be warned though, its very easy for the driver behind to get a good tow coming out of 11 as the straight is long and fast.

This track is all about being smooth and precise but the ability to have some fantastic battles is certainly there.


Fuji Raceway.. Japan

fuji_track.jpg


Passing points. 1, 6, 10 and 15.

The famous Fuji Racway. Redesigned in the early 00's by Tilke, this track delivers super fast speeds and some unforgiving corners. The front straight was at one point the longest in F1.

1 has to be the best passing point on the circuit. A massively long straight with an almost hair pin turn on exit with plenty of room to throw it up the inside and get a good exit. Its very straight forward. Throw it up the inside and pass under braking. There is the ability to criss cross, but chances are you'll be level coming out of 2 and that makes you vulnerable for turn 3.


3. is a sharp left hander. Requires the upmost of bravely and skill as its very hard to see the Apex until you're right on it and if you mess it up, the outward camber will send you flying off to the right.

4-5. Another double apex corner, and a corner speed thats subject to your car. In some cars its possible to remain at 100% throttle but its most certainly a corner where you can never have enough downforce. Two options for this corner. Take a wide line through 4 and then cut in through 5, or take a tight line through 4 and drift out wide for 5. The later is probably the best route for overtaking as it allows you to pull up for the inside of the hairpin 6.

6-7. The entry to six is almost as wide as Brooklyn bridge. You won't have any problems getting a pass off into this corner. The corner exit opens up nicely into a fast sequence of straights and corners. Again, the trailing car also has a good chance of grabbing a slip stream coming into turn 10 and 9 and 8 can be run side by side.

If you want to pass at 10, its simple. Take the inside line and hold it through the entire corner. It sets you up nicely for the chicane at 11 and 12 and gives you the inside run for 13. Mostly single file but the track widens into 13 allowing you to run 2 wide up to 15. Into 15, again take the inside line. Nowhere to go on the tight exit so run them wide and keep the position.

Turn 16 is a another corner with two possibilities. Stay wide and turn in almost on exit or stay tight and drift out wide. Again the width of the track is massive. Be weary if you're on the final lap coming out of 16. If somebody is right up behind you on exit, you've lost the race as its quite a distance to the start/finish line. Other then that, its not a bad position to be in if you're leading out of the turn on any lap as the straight is long enough to allow you to get into the tow of the car that just received a tow from you.



Tomorrow is Apricot Hill and Laguna Seca.
 
Laguna Seca separates the men from the boys.
 
I've never really played Gran Turismo before but am thinking about getting GT5. Do you guys play with the controller or a wheel?
 
I've never really played Gran Turismo before but am thinking about getting GT5. Do you guys play with the controller or a wheel?

Using a wheel makes the experience infinitely better, but it takes much more getting used to and perfecting. It's still fantastic with a controller, but it doesn't really do the game full justice. Given that many people play games like this for months and even years it's certainly a worthwhile investment, both in terms of money and time. And, of course, once you have one it can be used for most other driving games, as well.

This game is going to cost me a fortune, but I have absolutely no hesitation. I need to buy the PS3 bundle with GT5 (I only have an Xbox at the moment), a new LCD TV, a steering wheel, and possibly even a stand for the wheel, although there are other ways of securing it.
 
I wouldn't try playing with a DualShock with professional physics and all assists off until you've had a lot of practice with standard physics. With the Time Trial, it took me about twenty minutes before I could get the car around without losing the back end.
 
apricothill.jpg


Apricot Hill. Passing points: 2, 9 and 12


One of the most technical tracks on GT. Steep undulations with large variety of corner types, this track is far from easy to master.

Heading in to turn one, this corner can be taken in two ways depending on your car. Either full throttle with an almost immediate braking point at corner exit, or easing off the throttle and applying a small amount of brake pressure before bringing the anchors on for the tight turn 2.

Turn 2 is the first overtaking opportunity on track. A dive up the inside sees a good coverage area followed by an inside line to the next corner. Be warned though, the short straight leading out dips slightly as it flows into a set of in camber s bends that can easily cause a driver to fall off the circuit.


Turns 3-6 are a series of high speed S bends. Good flow is critical through these turns otherwise you might find your competitors to close for comfort coming out of the 7/8 complex onto another medium lengthened straight.

Turns 7-8 is a large sweeping left hander. Unlike with Fuji, there really is only one line and thats start out wide and turn in. This corner also rewards trail braking more then others, so its a good opportunity to close in tight to your competitor.

Turn 9 is a tight hairpin right at the end of the second longest straight on the course. It also holds the 2nd passing opportunity on track. If you fail to get a good run through the S-bends then you'll find yourself highly vulnerable to attack. Again like turn 2, its a throw it up the inside corner. Plenty of room on corner exit and the ideal line for flip flop of turns 10, 11 and 12.

Turn 13 is the last and probably hardest passing opportunity on circuit. To set your self up for the pass you need to take a tight line through 12 and aim to stay out wide after corner exit. Take a conventional race line and you won't find you have enough time to get up the inside. Huge elevation changes make this corner quite tricky, but also supremely rewarding. You want to straight line the chicane as much as possible to carry momentum up the steep short stretch and into the final turn 15.

Turn 15 is an in camber left hander that pops you out on to the front straight. Its quite and easy corner but be warned that you may need to slightly adjust your throttle percentage midway through the corner.
 
Some lag between the steering input and on screen wheel there. Something people were complaining about on f1. I hope that is to do with steering settings the guy has.

I think it is because he does a lot of steering to move the on screen wheel a small amount. He must sensitivity really low and or linearity above 100%

Looks amazing as usual though.

4 weeks to get my new setup.
 
Some lag between the steering input and on screen wheel there. Something people were complaining about on f1. I hope that is to do with steering settings the guy has.

I think it is because he does a lot of steering to move the on screen wheel a small amount. He must sensitivity really low and or linearity above 100%

Looks amazing as usual though.

4 weeks to get my new setup.

It definitely looked like the settings to me, the car doesn't wobble when his hands do.

Oh and the in-car graphics are a bit off putting, since they do seem to lag slightly to what the car's doing. Not that it matters in the slightest though.
 
The wheel probably hasn't been calibrated right, or the game animations don't respond properly to it, they could be baked to the Dualshock. I find the cockpit view distracting with a wheel in any case, just looks odd seeing two wheels in your field of view.

As for lag, it's not a wireless device, so it will be different, but no game with the Dualshock has ever got below 66ms, which in 60fps terms is still 4 frames.

* The lowest latencies a video game can have is 50ms (three frames) - the PS3 XMB runs at this rate, but few games reach it.
* Most 60FPS games have a 66.67ms latency - Ridge Racer 7, for example.
* 30FPS games have a minimum potential lag of 100ms, but many exceed this.
* Game developers should test their own games using the camera technique in order to weed out bugs - West says that Heavenly Sword's response slows down to 300ms just by turning the character, and reckons it's a technical issue that should have been resolved before going gold with the game.
* Citing GTAIV as an example, West suggests that a 166ms response is where gamers notice controller lag, which could also explain the Killzone 2 furore too.
* Game reviewers should accurately measure latency for their reviews where controller lag is an issue, in the hope that sloppy game response times come under far more scrutiny.

Console Gaming: The Lag Factor - Page 1 | DigitalFoundry | Eurogamer.net
 
Yeah I think its the settings (and hope).

I wonder if you could turn off the in car wheel?

People say they don't like seeing two wheels but I just immerse myself in the screen viewing that wheel as the wheel I'm holding.

This is why screen lag is really off putting to me.

This thread has got me in the mood for a driving game now, the streets of Monaco beckon.
 
I saw a woman driving a Passat the other day, and she must have been around 5ft tall, because she was that low in the driving seat, that I'm sure that all she could see was the steering wheel. I would have thought that a Passat would at least have an electronic seat height changer, but maybe she didn't know.
 
I wonder if you could turn off the in car wheel

As far as I understand it they have implemented a new camera that sits head height just in front of the windscreen, mainly to get around the furore that occurred over the fact that the standard cars don't have cockpits. Probably the best option with a wheel for me, because I dislike the standard GT "bumper" view.
 
big_Laguna%20Seca01.png


Laguna Seca: Passing points: 2, 5, 10 and 11. Rare 8....


Known more famously for its trademark, Corkscrew turn, Laguna Seca has been a staple of Gran Turismo since Gran Turismo 2. 11 corners make up this 3.6 km track and has delivered some of the best racing both on four wheels and two.

Turn 1 begins almost immediately after the start finish line. A full throttle left hander, its more of a kink then a corner. Stick left and until over the hill and heading towards 2.

Turn 2 is probably the best overtaking position on the circuit. An extended hair pin left hander a quick throw down the inside should see you take the position. It's possible to take two lines through this corner without actually changing your position into the braking zone. You can either turn in early and decrease the apex angle, or take a more conventional turn in and increase corner exit speed.

Turn 3 and 4 are almost 90 degree right handers. Turn 3 tightens on exit so to be weary about car position mid corner before putting the hammer down. Flow through turn four and head up towards turn 5.


Turn 5 is the second braking zone on the circuit. Its imperative to get a good exit from 3 as it can aid in either overtaking or stopping your opponent from making the pass into turn 5.

Turn 6 is a single file left hander! Two wide here just doesn't work and if you're not careful, you'll find yourself shooting straight off. It's highly similar to turn 3 at fuji in that you cannot see the apex until you're basically on it. A quick dab of the brake and maximum commitment can leave your opposition floundering behind.

Next is the turn 7/8 complex or the corkscrew. Now while this complex is listed as two corners, it effectively becomes one. It's possible after getting a good exit through 6 to overtake in to 8, but its rare and often unadvised. As you fly through seven and notice the Oak tree, jump hard on to the brakes. Its a blind crest and Apex, so your only really indication of where to turn in are the braking markers. As soon as you hit the apex the corner effectively sucks you in spits you out. Its effectively a 5 story drop in about 300 meters. Be weary of corner exit, but other than that, once in the corner, it becomes a rather simple corner. If those brave enough to make the pass, have no fear in a re overtake.

Turn 9 is immediately following 8. An outwards camber corner its very easy to understeer and end up in the dirt towards corner exit. Hold it tight and don't let the car drift.

Turn 10 is quick shoot down from 9. Its the 3rd braking zone on the circuit. Toss it up the inside and drift wide using the in camber to keep you on track. Its surprisingly wide and allows the driver to really give the car the beans on exit.

The final turn 11 is the 2nd best corner on the track to overtake. A 60kmh 90 degree left. Toss it up the inside and hold your line. The finish line is close enough to not have to worry about slip stream but be weary going through one and down into 2.
 
I'd like to see the Corkscrew in person some day.... even have a proper go at it. It must b so bizarre. I wonder what they were thinking when they built the track.
 
Have you seen that video posted earlier on in the thread, with Clarkson doing his Laguna Seca GT vs Laguna Seca real life in an NSX? Really funny, and highlights that with all the arguments about physics engines and the like, at the end of the day, you simply cannot simulate the real thing. He's shitting himself half of the time in the real NSX.
 
Can somebody help me out?

I'm either going to buy the Logitech Driving Force GT racing wheel, or the Logitech G25. Both are very difficult to get hold of right now, either because new models are imminent or already on sale (the G27), or because people are buying them almost as soon as new stock is available, for obvious reasons.

I have found both wheels for £99 and £137, respectively, but I'm wondering about the flappy paddles on the G25 and whether they enhance the experience or not?

I'm also thinking about buying a Speedblack Universal Steering Wheel System to secure it with.
 
Yeah, the G25 has been discontinued because of the G27. DFGT is the official wheel and what they used to develop the game with. G27 has paddle shifters as well, but there is no sequential shift on the gear stick, it's a pure H-gate. DFGT has all the PS3 buttons on it, and more, but no paddles, stick is sequential shift only - no H gate, and there is no clutch pedal - but we don't know if GT5 supports a clutch yet.
 
You know i don't really like driving games, just never got into them. But this game looks so good i might give it a try, i have a feeling it's going to frustrate me a lot though.
 
Yeah, the G25 has been discontinued because of the G27. DFGT is the official wheel and what they used to develop the game with. G27 has paddle shifters as well, but there is no sequential shift on the gear stick, it's a pure H-gate. DFGT has all the PS3 buttons on it, and more, but no paddles, stick is sequential shift only - no H gate, and there is no clutch pedal - but we don't know if GT5 supports a clutch yet.

The DFGT you recommended me has paddle shifts, but sadly, they're not long enough to be easily accessible.