Glazers selling a significant amount of shares

RkkMan said:
Klopp didn't join us because he was under contract when we approached him in 2013 and 2014 and he was still fully committed to Dortmund. The Disneyland thing was obviously annoying but you're contorting facts saying it was due to our "structure" we never approached him in 2015 when he was free and when LVG was still under contract.
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He didn't show any interest. If he had been willing to join on Ed's terms then we would have taken him at any point I'm sure. But presumably he said I would want to sell quite a few of your players and shape things my way. And that will take a few years and cost money and I will be calling the shots. And so it didn't go anywhere. What Ed really wants is a manager who delivers top four without meanwhile kicking up a fuss about how Ed runs the club, and who keeps the fans onside. And that's what he has got.

RkkMan said:
And once again as I told you earlier a DM was NEVER on the cards. Our transfer business was set to end with Sancho and Varane if Ronaldo wasn't available so you're wrong to say it was an either or situation. Camavinga and Rice were the only CMs Ole wanted
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Funny how the money suddenly appeared for Ronaldo though. Because our transfers are dictated by commercial considerations, not footballing ones. Camavinga was acceptable to Ed because he fits our profile of young player running down his contract, just like Sancho. Varane is an outlier but also a bargain so close to the end of his contract. And Rice is the kind of non bargain option that City would not blink at but Ed would never go for.
 
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Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but once the Glazers passed the 30% stakeholder threshold they were forced to launch a takeover bid, no?

So if they only own 69% of the club now then in theory it does leave the door open?

I can’t imagine anything is currently on the cards but poses interesting possibilities.
 
GregM40 said:
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but once the Glazers passed the 30% stakeholder threshold they were forced to launch a takeover bid, no?

So if they only own 69% of the club now then in theory it does leave the door open?

I can’t imagine anything is currently on the cards but poses interesting possibilities.
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No.
The other 31% isn't owned by a single entity.
 
glazed said:
He didn't show any interest. If he had been willing to join on Ed's terms then we would have taken him at any point I'm sure. But presumably he said I would want to sell quite a few of your players and shape things my way. And that will take a few years and cost money and I will be calling the shots. And so it didn't go anywhere. What Ed really wants is a manager who delivers top four without meanwhile kicking up a fuss about how Ed runs the club, and who keeps the fans onside. And that's what he has got.



Funny how the money suddenly appeared for Ronaldo though. Because our transfers are dictated by commercial considerations, not footballing ones. Camavinga was acceptable to Ed because he fits our profile of young player running down his contract, just like Sancho. Varane is an outlier but also a bargain so close to the end of his contract. And Rice is the kind of non bargain option that City would not blink at but Ed would never go for.
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You're talking out of pure speculation on Klopp to suit a weak argument. There was literally a report directly quoting Ed Woodward calling LVG a "genius" around the time Rodgers got sacked there was absolutely nothing about us looking to replace LVG with Klopp or anyone till his awful results in December which then brought up Mourinho links. If we had actually approached him DIRECTLY alongside Liverpool and he said no then you'd be right but you aren't. Maybe he'd have flopped here but looking at how we've backed Ole and how good Klopp is at getting the best out of average players like Fergie I personally think he's one of the few managers that would win trophies even with The Glazers. In fact The money men at Utd only started taking control of transfers in Jose's final summer when we rightfully refused to buy Willian, Mina, Alderweireld etc for excessive fees before then Jose had next to full control of transfers.

What's the problem with having a policy that doesn't involve overpaying for players that are either average or over the hill? Should we subject ourselves to lavish signings not well planned for just so that we can look like a club that seems to spend big when we're actually making mistakes of the past under LVG and Jose? Camavinga and Sancho are the types of profiles top clubs look at because they're potentially world class players that will give you a decades worth of service.

I rate Rice but you're out of your mind if you think he's anywhere worth £90-100m(he's worth £70m max) if he was that good Chelsea who wanted him last summer and last year with Lampard would have paid it but instead they're being linked to the Monaco DM as a cheaper alternative. Unlike the Maguire saga where he was the only good CB we could have gotten at the time due to lack of CL football there's several DMs out there we can get for half the price of Rice that can be just as good if not better
 
RkkMan said:
You're talking out of pure speculation on Klopp to suit a weak argument. There was literally a report directly quoting Ed Woodward calling LVG a "genius" around the time Rodgers got sacked there was absolutely nothing about us looking to replace LVG with Klopp or anyone till his awful results in December which then brought up Mourinho links.


Unlike the Maguire saga where he was the only good CB we could have gotten at the time due to lack of CL football there's several DMs out there we can get for half the price of Rice that can be just as good if not better
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Ed went to talk to Klopp. Klopp wasn't impressed. Klopp never came. These are the facts. Sure timing might have been a factor but if you want someone and they want you then it happens.

As to the DM thing - we clearly need a DM very badly. I don't buy that Ole only wanted Rice but he was too pricey. As you say there are plenty to be had. It's just none of them fitted the spreadsheet.

If you think Ole is in any way in charge of transfers then I have three words for you. Van der Beek.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
I’m no great business mind, but If they now only own about 60% of United, doesn’t that mean someone rich out there can buy out the other 40% and then be in a good position to take over the club?
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Depends on the voting rights of the available shares.
 
glazed said:
Ed went to talk to Klopp. Klopp wasn't impressed. Klopp never came. These are the facts. Sure timing might have been a factor but if you want someone and they want you then it happens.

As to the DM thing - we clearly need a DM very badly. I don't buy that Ole only wanted Rice but he was too pricey. As you say there are plenty to be had. It's just none of them fitted the spreadsheet.

If you think Ole is in any way in charge of transfers then I have three words for you. Van der Beek.
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We wanted Ronaldinho and Baptista but didn't get them. Inter wanted to pay good money for Scholes but didn't get him. Chelsea wanted Gerrard didn't get him. Some things are never meant to be and even the wealthiest organizations aren't immune to it so much as you want to push a narrative we could have done better to get Klopp(which we probably could have) it was simply unlikely to happen barring an extreme circumstance.

Maybe he had other DMs in mind but he also wanted Sancho last summer at £108m but got him a year later at a huge discount. The DM situation will only come to a conclusion in January or next summer

You're talking about VDB(I personally don't think Cavani was his choice too)but weren't James, Maguire, AWB(we scouted over 800 RBs), Bruno, Telles, Sancho, Ronaldo and Varane all his signings? That leaves only 2 signings of his that he didn't want majority of his preferences he got. Klopp wanted Brandt, Gotze and Werner ahead of Salah, Mane and Jota respectively. Pep wanted Koulibaly and Kounde ahead of Ruben Dias. Managers having to settle for alternatives happens everywhere you're just too focused on Utd that you don't asses what happens elsewhere.

Here's evidence on Ronaldo and look at the timeline of the tweet
 
RkkMan said:
You're talking about VDB(I personally don't think Cavani was his choice too)but weren't James, Maguire, AWB(we scouted over 800 RBs), Bruno, Telles, Sancho, Ronaldo and Varane all his signings? That leaves only 2 signings of his that he didn't want majority of his preferences he got. Klopp wanted Brandt, Gotze and Werner ahead of Salah, Mane and Jota respectively. Pep wanted Koulibaly and Kounde ahead of Ruben Dias. Managers having to settle for alternatives happens everywhere you're just too focused on Utd that you don't asses what happens elsewhere.
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You are missing the wood for the trees. Ole has no distinctive style of play so only a very general idea of what he wants. He clearly has no veto over what he gets except to refuse to play them once they get here. He's not settling for alternatives he's getting what he's given.

And no I don't think he especially wanted Ronaldo. It just puts him under extra pressure when he's already required to field a dysfunctional team. And having a super influential complete narcissist in the dressing room isn't any manager's idea of fun. Ole is only there as the Glazers' yes man so he wouldn't go against their wishes in public.
 
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glazed said:
You are missing the wood for the trees. Ole has no distinctive style of play so only a very general idea of what he wants. He clearly has no veto over what he gets except to refuse to play them once they get here. He's not settling for alternatives he's getting what he's given.

And no I don't think he especially wanted Ronaldo. It just puts him under extra pressure when he's already required to field a dysfunctional team. And having a super influential complete narcissist in the dressing room isn't any manager's idea of fun. Ole is only there as the Glazers' yes man so he wouldn't go against their wishes in public.
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Guess work at its finest.
 
Joseunited said:
Guess work at its finest.
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Logic. Why would you want to upgrade on what you have when there is something else you don't have and need? It's like me buying a new car when there is a hole in my roof.
 
glazed said:
Logic. Why would you want to upgrade on what you have when there is something else you don't have and need? It's like me buying a new car when there is a hole in my roof.
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I must have missed something last season, which one of our front players hit 30 goals?
 
Joseunited said:
I must have missed something last season, which one of our front players hit 30 goals?
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Nobody in the Premier League. Is it a significant stat? The three clubs with the leading goal scorers all finished outside the top 4 in 2020. Last season the team that won had one top ten goal scorer.

2019-20

1Jamie VardyLeicester City23
2Pierre-Emerick AubameyangArsenal22
=2Danny IngsSouthampton22
4Raheem SterlingManchester City20
5Mohamed SalahLiverpool19
=6Harry KaneTottenham18
=6Sadio ManeLiverpool18
=8Raul JimenezWolves17
=8Marcus RashfordManchester United17
=8Anthony MartialManchester United17

2020-21

1.​
Harry KaneEnglandTottenham Hotspur
23 (4)​
2.​
Mohamed SalahEgyptLiverpool FC
22 (6)​
3.​
Bruno FernandesPortugalManchester United
18 (9)​
4.​
Patrick BamfordEnglandLeeds United
17 (2)​
​
Heung-min SonSouth KoreaTottenham Hotspur
17 (1)​
6.​
Dominic Calvert-LewinEnglandEverton FC
16 (0)​
7.​
Jamie VardyEnglandLeicester City
15 (8)​
8.​
Ollie WatkinsEnglandAston Villa
14 (1)​
9.​
İlkay GündoğanGermanyManchester City
13 (1)​
​
Alexandre LacazetteFranceArsenal FC
1​
 
glazed said:
You are missing the wood for the trees. Ole has no distinctive style of play so only a very general idea of what he wants. He clearly has no veto over what he gets except to refuse to play them once they get here. He's not settling for alternatives he's getting what he's given.

And no I don't think he especially wanted Ronaldo. It just puts him under extra pressure when he's already required to field a dysfunctional team. And having a super influential complete narcissist in the dressing room isn't any manager's idea of fun. Ole is only there as the Glazers' yes man so he wouldn't go against their wishes in public.
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If he was refusing to play every player why is VDB the only "signing" under him that's not gotten game time? Even Ighalo got more of a run in and everyone else has either become a starter(Maguire AWB Bruno Sancho Varane Ronaldo)or played a good number of games(James Ighalo Cavani Telles)which again shows you're making a mountain out of a molehill trying to spread a theory based off biased thinking that each and every player he's been given was forced on him. Ole having no distinctive style of play is on him not The Glazers he's been given more time and backing than any other manager post Fergie era if he fails it's because he's not good enough not because The Glazers are parasites.
As for Ronaldo check the timelines of these tweets if you once again think he didn't want him



 
RkkMan said:
If he was refusing to play every player why is VDB the only "signing" under him that's not gotten game time?



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It's well known the Glazers would want Ronaldo. As a Yes man, so would Ole.

VDB is proof Ole does not control transfers. That's the point. Explain otherwise why we bought him then never gave him a chance?

You are basically saying Ole is a crap coach and it's all on him. I agree that he is a crap coach. But it's all on the Glazers. Including the fact we appointed a crap coach in the first place. So our disagreements are really only skin deep anyway since it all comes back to the Glazers. The day they appoint a good coach and we start winning big silverware consistently is the day I will change my analysis.
 
glazed said:
It's well known the Glazers would want Ronaldo. As a Yes man, so would Ole.

VDB is proof Ole does not control transfers. That's the point. Explain otherwise why we bought him then never gave him a chance?

You are basically saying Ole is a crap coach and it's all on him. I agree that he is a crap coach. But it's all on the Glazers. Including the fact we appointed a crap coach in the first place. So our disagreements are really only skin deep anyway since it all comes back to the Glazers. The day they appoint a good coach and we start winning big silverware consistently is the day I will change my analysis.
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If Ole is a yes man and the Glazers are controlling everything you don't think they'd tell Ole to play VDB more often?You have a serious agenda against the Glazers (prats that they are)that turns up in just about all your posts.
 
GregM40 said:
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but once the Glazers passed the 30% stakeholder threshold they were forced to launch a takeover bid, no?

So if they only own 69% of the club now then in theory it does leave the door open?

I can’t imagine anything is currently on the cards but poses interesting possibilities.
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There's no law requiring the Glazers to accept the bid.
 
glazed said:
It's well known the Glazers would want Ronaldo. As a Yes man, so would Ole.

VDB is proof Ole does not control transfers. That's the point. Explain otherwise why we bought him then never gave him a chance?

You are basically saying Ole is a crap coach and it's all on him. I agree that he is a crap coach. But it's all on the Glazers. Including the fact we appointed a crap coach in the first place. So our disagreements are really only skin deep anyway since it all comes back to the Glazers. The day they appoint a good coach and we start winning big silverware consistently is the day I will change my analysis.
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We bought him because the player Ole wanted in his place was Grealish but Villa priced him out of a move when they survived relegation. Again from a previous post Klopp and Pep at "better run clubs" also had several top targets they missed out on and had to settle for alternatives in the name of Salah, Mane, Jota, Ruben Dias amongst others. Does that mean the managers there are not in charge of transfers at their clubs? News flash managers everywhere settle for plan Bs sometimes and Utd aren't different
VDB's game time is a mystery but his uncertain situation isn't a reflection of our general transfer activity under Ole when he's the only signing out of a possible 12 under Ole that's not played much. One bad apple doesn't represent the whole fruit basket.
Ole is a crap manager but the clamor to appoint him permanently after his interim stint and that PSG result was too high since nobody expected him to do so well initially, over 70-80% of everyone on the CAF and worldwide was begging for it to happen. It's a shame it's taken a better squad for people to see his weaknesses but you can't fault the rebuilding job he's done so far and unlike other years the next manager will get a top squad
 
Joseunited said:
If Ole is a yes man and the Glazers are controlling everything you don't think they'd tell Ole to play VDB more often?You have a serious agenda against the Glazers (prats that they are)that turns up in just about all your posts.
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Yes I do have a serious agenda against the Glazers as should every supporter of this club. The clue is in my name. Everything I say is true though. I'm trying to get through to people that this is not some fantasy football game, where you just switch out the manager and win the league. There are serious structural obstacles to any manager succeeding at Old Trafford and they are not there by accident. The good ones see that clearly and that's why we only get bad ones.

Ole picks the team. He doesn't choose the players.
 
glazed said:
Yes I do have a serious agenda against the Glazers as should every supporter of this club. The clue is in my name. Everything I say is true though. I'm trying to get through to people that this is not some fantasy football game, where you just switch out the manager and win the league. There are serious structural obstacles to any manager succeeding at Old Trafford and they are not there by accident. The good ones see that clearly and that's why we only get bad ones.

Ole picks the team. He doesn't choose the players.
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Sorry mate but unless you have inside knowledge that is not true.
 
glazed said:
Yes I do have a serious agenda against the Glazers as should every supporter of this club. The clue is in my name. Everything I say is true though. I'm trying to get through to people that this is not some fantasy football game, where you just switch out the manager and win the league. There are serious structural obstacles to any manager succeeding at Old Trafford and they are not there by accident. The good ones see that clearly and that's why we only get bad ones.

Ole picks the team. He doesn't choose the players.
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So going by your logic do you really think The Glazers and Woodward who have next to no clue about football had any clue who Daniel James, AWB, Bruno Fernandes, Amad, Pellistri, Telles or even VDB were? You think they use a ping pong method of randomly selecting players then telling Ole "You're signing this guy whether you like it or not"
Even for The Glazers who are very incompetent owners you legitimately can't expect that to be the autonomous process on EVERY signing especially when the people running the club try as little as possible to involve themselves in football related decisions
 
RkkMan said:
So going by your logic do you really think The Glazers and Woodward who have next to no clue about football had any clue who Daniel James, AWB, Bruno Fernandes, Amad, Pellistri, Telles or even VDB were? You think they use a ping pong method of randomly selecting players then telling Ole "You're signing this guy whether you like it or not"
Even for The Glazers who are very incompetent owners you legitimately can't expect that to be the autonomous process on EVERY signing especially when the people running the club try as little as possible to involve themselves in football related decisions
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No there will be a target selection process that Ole has some say in with first second third fourth options in each position. And then there will be an affordability filter imposed by Woodward which rules most of them out. And that affordability filter goes well beyond just the question of cost, distorting the whole process.
 
RkkMan said:
So going by your logic do you really think The Glazers and Woodward who have next to no clue about football had any clue who Daniel James, AWB, Bruno Fernandes, Amad, Pellistri, Telles or even VDB were? You think they use a ping pong method of randomly selecting players then telling Ole "You're signing this guy whether you like it or not"
Even for The Glazers who are very incompetent owners you legitimately can't expect that to be the autonomous process on EVERY signing especially when the people running the club try as little as possible to involve themselves in football related decisions
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Who said they are autonomous on targets? Scouting staff probably gives a list to Woodward, he find the best targets (price, wages, ability, etc) and gets them. Ole simply says yes because he has zero authority at the club. How do you explain
Fernandes - wasn't Ole's target, we were in for him long before he came here
Maguire - same
Varane - same
DVB - highly unlikely to be Ole's target since he has barely played.
Ronaldo - doesn't seem to be Ole's target and given the reports, it seems this was a personal Glazer signing, not even Woodward's.
AWB & James - not sure

Pretty sure Ole has very little say when it comes to transfers apart from a "final" yes. Whether that "yes" matters and whether Ole ever exercised a "no" is another matter. We know from Van Gaal and especially Mourinho that they had a lot of bickering with the board over transfer targets. Mourinho was so pissed that he basically sabotaged everything. Ole seems eerily quiet on that front.
 
glazed said:
It's well known the Glazers would want Ronaldo. As a Yes man, so would Ole.

VDB is proof Ole does not control transfers. That's the point. Explain otherwise why we bought him then never gave him a chance?

You are basically saying Ole is a crap coach and it's all on him. I agree that he is a crap coach. But it's all on the Glazers. Including the fact we appointed a crap coach in the first place. So our disagreements are really only skin deep anyway since it all comes back to the Glazers. The day they appoint a good coach and we start winning big silverware consistently is the day I will change my analysis.
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There's an interview in the Athletic around the time Donny arrived in how Ole called Donny and convinced him to come to United.

You'd have to ask Ole why he's not playing, could be pressure to keep results, maybe partly Pogba was due to leave but offers broke down, clubs got hit hard with covid. Maybe he had a different system to try but decided against it or simply he's a player that the manager got wrong idea of. Whatever the case Ole brought him in.
 
redshaw said:
There's an interview in the Athletic around the time Donny arrived in how Ole called Donny and convinced him to come to United
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He's hardly going to say I didn't really want him but Ed said I couldn't have Grealish and it was him or nobody.

Sviken said:
Pretty sure Ole has very little say when it comes to transfers apart from a "final" yes. Whether that "yes" matters and whether Ole ever exercised a "no" is another matter. We know from Van Gaal and especially Mourinho that they had a lot of bickering with the board over transfer targets. Mourinho was so pissed that he basically sabotaged everything. Ole seems eerily quiet on that front.
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Exactly. We all know Ole owes his position to being the Glazers' yes man, not to his coaching ability. The better the coach, the less they will co-operate with all that. That's why he's there, why he won't be fired easily and why his successor will be just as bad.

Better to just buy a decent DM in January and muddle through to top four. That's what I expect will happen.
 
Sviken said:
Who said they are autonomous on targets? Scouting staff probably gives a list to Woodward, he find the best targets (price, wages, ability, etc) and gets them. Ole simply says yes because he has zero authority at the club. How do you explain
Fernandes - wasn't Ole's target, we were in for him long before he came here
Maguire - same
Varane - same
DVB - highly unlikely to be Ole's target since he has barely played.
Ronaldo - doesn't seem to be Ole's target and given the reports, it seems this was a personal Glazer signing, not even Woodward's.
AWB & James - not sure

Pretty sure Ole has very little say when it comes to transfers apart from a "final" yes. Whether that "yes" matters and whether Ole ever exercised a "no" is another matter. We know from Van Gaal and especially Mourinho that they had a lot of bickering with the board over transfer targets. Mourinho was so pissed that he basically sabotaged everything. Ole seems eerily quiet on that front.
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Bruno- Ole personally scouted him


Maguire:


Varane- ANY manager would have said yes to signing him when they're in desperate need of a CB his CV and reputation speaks for itself
VDB- He's the one signing I believe Ole didn't want

Ronaldo: Look at the timeline of the tweets



AWB- We scouted over 800 RBs remember?
James- He was a cheap alternative to Sancho who was not available in 2019 but Ole played him a lot
 
The club is scouting hundreds of players but I don‘t believe United would sign anyone if the manager was strictly against it.
Based on reports and how the transfers happened I would assume VdB, Cavani and Ronaldo were club signings (Ole agreed to all three. We got Cavani after we couldn’t get Sancho and Ole couldn’t afford to say no to Ronaldo. VdB no idea, the club probably wanted some kind of „cheap“ and easy signing).

Maguire was both, a club and Ole signing.

Bruno, Sancho and James were Ole signings.

AWB and Varane not sure, probably again both club and Ole.
 
glazed said:
He's hardly going to say I didn't really want him but Ed said I couldn't have Grealish and it was him or nobody.
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The interview was with Donny not Ole if that makes any difference.
 
Sviken said:
From the club. These leeches don't have a single dollar in their name.
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Yes thats what I was alluding to. Shitbags instead of putting it back in the club, Utd will be funding another franchise now
 
wolvored said:
Yes thats what I was alluding to. Shitbags instead of putting it back in the club, Utd will be funding another franchise now
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I suppose whether we are funding franchises or mega yachts or whatever else these twats decide to spend the money on, we are still equally out of pocket at the end of the day.
 
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