Support the manager, United way/DNA, etc. - all propaganda driven by the money men in charge of the club to stop discontent from spreading.
Painfully obvious if people want to look but it's heads firmly in the sand FC.
Give Ole some credit, strikers have been poor, especially last night
- Thread starter Alek M
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Painfully obvious if people want to look but it's heads firmly in the sand FC.
It kinda made sense under Mourinho because he undermined the players at pretty much every opportunity - when you hear your own manager tell you the squad is crap, it makes an impression on fans.
Ole, for all his faults, has never done that. So if anything this is even stranger.
Wtf. No.
Don't understand why people still don't recognize Ole's core problem. Has nothing to do with the strikers. Our team cannot sustain the type of energy we expend in those periods or halves every game. You will get a Leeds or Southampton thrashing in those scenarios, but the reality of the time, that energy is hard for a team to constantly sustain when attacking. We need to be able to control and dominate games even when we don't have that level of intensity. This doesn't mean playing a slow patient game like City do. In fact I think we try too hard to progress the ball like them despite the fact that we don't have the coaching team to create the required shapes and movements to sustain possession or play out of the back.
We need to be able to dominate games in 2nd or 3rd gear; and that is only done when there is a effective system of play. United don't need to slowly move the ball and in truth it doesn't help us as the movement we have off the ball doesn't create the passing angles to make it easy to play that way. We should be far more direct than we currently are. The midfield and attack we currently have would benefit massively from it. We hardly play balls into spaces anymore( except with the intention of a through ball to Rashford). Out aim should always be to get the ball as quickly into the opposition half as possible, rather than simply holding on the ball. City can do that because they have the ability to push the opposition back whilst retaining possession, in fact, it their goal. We shouldn't be aspiring to do that imo.
We need to be able to dominate games in 2nd or 3rd gear; and that is only done when there is a effective system of play. United don't need to slowly move the ball and in truth it doesn't help us as the movement we have off the ball doesn't create the passing angles to make it easy to play that way. We should be far more direct than we currently are. The midfield and attack we currently have would benefit massively from it. We hardly play balls into spaces anymore( except with the intention of a through ball to Rashford). Out aim should always be to get the ball as quickly into the opposition half as possible, rather than simply holding on the ball. City can do that because they have the ability to push the opposition back whilst retaining possession, in fact, it their goal. We shouldn't be aspiring to do that imo.
What a joke of a thread. Ole is well out of his depth. Just ask any Cardiff fan their views on Ole and they will tell you it was crazy to give him the job in the first place. He has been backed to the hilt in transfer windows, had a long enough time to get the team to play how he wants and we are still shit.
Admittedly Mourinho lead to his own downfall but he did much better than Ole all things considered. 2nd place, Community shield, Europa league - with a much worse squad and no where near the quality of signings/backing Ole has had.
I never felt Mourinho was the right fit for us but the facts don't lie. What has Ole achieved/won?
I can't even thank Ole for building the team because the simple fact is that he has been backed better than any other manager we have had and has still left glaringly obvious holes in our squad whilst overloading on attacking players.
Right now we are in an emotional position because he is a legend of the club. Everyone knows he is out of his depth. If it was anyone else who didn't have Ole's status at this club they would be long gone. He just has that security blanket of loads of friends who are pundits and a few fans who give him slack because of his history here but slowly even they are all starting to turn.
The coaching is dreadful, and also Ive never seen a manager on the touchline looking like a deer caught in headlights as much as Ole does.
Ole out the sooner the better.
Admittedly Mourinho lead to his own downfall but he did much better than Ole all things considered. 2nd place, Community shield, Europa league - with a much worse squad and no where near the quality of signings/backing Ole has had.
I never felt Mourinho was the right fit for us but the facts don't lie. What has Ole achieved/won?
I can't even thank Ole for building the team because the simple fact is that he has been backed better than any other manager we have had and has still left glaringly obvious holes in our squad whilst overloading on attacking players.
Right now we are in an emotional position because he is a legend of the club. Everyone knows he is out of his depth. If it was anyone else who didn't have Ole's status at this club they would be long gone. He just has that security blanket of loads of friends who are pundits and a few fans who give him slack because of his history here but slowly even they are all starting to turn.
The coaching is dreadful, and also Ive never seen a manager on the touchline looking like a deer caught in headlights as much as Ole does.
Ole out the sooner the better.
I remember I had a dream once where we lost a CL game because Edwin Van Der Sar randomly exploded and the opposition goal turned into a bus stop.
It feels like a similar kind of thing has happened here.
Good question
My point is that over decades I have seen the Caf sentiment in every possible shape. Becks if finished, Scholes is finished, SAF is finished, Rooney is past it, Ruud is past it, Vidic is done, why is Fletcher playing. There are peaks and valleys in our club even when SAF was at the helm.
It is disappointing we are not playing the attacking style we want. But there are games when we do and this Wednesday was one when we did. There are times when Ole looks like he is out of dept. But no doubt he has transformed us for the better.
Part of it is that in EPL Teams have figured us out. They defend in the box and then hit us on counter. Not much space for us to create, which we rely on Bruno's magical pass (it used to be Giggs or Scholes that often did this).
In ECL there is more space and we tend to play better, at times. The games are more open.
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This thread sort of angers me. First of all the OP too easily skims past the part where he says Ole is responsible for how poorly we defend. Strikers are involved in defending, whether it's tracking back or pressing (the latter includes cutting off passing options as well). Most of the criticism I've seen of the Atalanta game is aimed at the poor defending, so what does the finishing of our strikers have to do with that?
Second, yes, Greenwood didn't have a good game and Rashford+Fred missed a few chances, but it shouldn't take 3 goals to beat an average (in CL terms) team at OT.
And 3rd, the premise sort of implies that we're giving Ole stick for one game. He's been managing for 3 years and has botched chances at (minor) trophies in contrast to his predecessors and the vast majority of reasonable criticisms of Ole (almost by definition) look at the full picture.
We're doing a lot of things wrong under Ole and this game reinforced those existing criticisms, it's not about one game, but if it was, our defensive organisation is criminally bad and there is not enough structure in the way we go about creating chances. People can hate on the "pattern of play" line all they wanted, but plenty of footy fans could give you a rough description of how City/Liverpool/Chelsea go about attacking. I wouldn't have a clue where to start for Man Utd were I asked.
Second, yes, Greenwood didn't have a good game and Rashford+Fred missed a few chances, but it shouldn't take 3 goals to beat an average (in CL terms) team at OT.
And 3rd, the premise sort of implies that we're giving Ole stick for one game. He's been managing for 3 years and has botched chances at (minor) trophies in contrast to his predecessors and the vast majority of reasonable criticisms of Ole (almost by definition) look at the full picture.
We're doing a lot of things wrong under Ole and this game reinforced those existing criticisms, it's not about one game, but if it was, our defensive organisation is criminally bad and there is not enough structure in the way we go about creating chances. People can hate on the "pattern of play" line all they wanted, but plenty of footy fans could give you a rough description of how City/Liverpool/Chelsea go about attacking. I wouldn't have a clue where to start for Man Utd were I asked.
Ole gets no credit for 45 mins of football, it has to be done over the time he's been here todate. Sadly it's not at level we're use to. He does get credit for our signings though. We now just need a manager that can get the best out of them, unfortunately he doesn't have the nouse to do that.
You thinking Maguire is world class while Shaw isn't is all I need to know about how much football you actually watch.
And as far as "being poor finishing" goes, we have a squad of elite finishers so even if we miss out within a game it will never be a reoccurring issue. However, the inability for Ole to properly coach our side to play out of a press or defend transitions properly is why we end up in so many ropey games against teams we should be blowing away. And that's what has always been the problem with him.
Rashford and Maguire are not WC
Maguire definitely not WC just expensive.
Don’t always agree with you but this is spot on.
The word support is lost on fans nowadays. Flavour of the month managers and bedroom tacticians have infiltrated the fanbase.
Hasenhuttel was last years 'maverick' this year its Potter or Ten Haag.
Funny thing about Ten Haag is I remember similar expectations with LVG a dutchman coming to play "total football" with Falcao Di Maria RVP Wazza we "had the players then too", didn't work.
How about we just fecking support our club which includes the players, manager and even the kitman, and stop the foolishness.
Funny people talk about DNA as just "winning" I often just roll my eyes. Reading all of Sir Alex's books he is obsessed with stability, as the framework to Man Utd. That's the difference between nicking a title every 4 years or so like Chelsea. Or dominating a League like we used to, stability.
Good news is I don't believe they're going to fire Ole regardless, so I just ignore the BS. Most modern fans aren't supporters they just angry customers.
Its a tough patch we will be alright.
Hasenhuttel was last years 'maverick' this year its Potter or Ten Haag.
Funny thing about Ten Haag is I remember similar expectations with LVG a dutchman coming to play "total football" with Falcao Di Maria RVP Wazza we "had the players then too", didn't work.
How about we just fecking support our club which includes the players, manager and even the kitman, and stop the foolishness.
Funny people talk about DNA as just "winning" I often just roll my eyes. Reading all of Sir Alex's books he is obsessed with stability, as the framework to Man Utd. That's the difference between nicking a title every 4 years or so like Chelsea. Or dominating a League like we used to, stability.
Good news is I don't believe they're going to fire Ole regardless, so I just ignore the BS. Most modern fans aren't supporters they just angry customers.
Its a tough patch we will be alright.
We've had the same rough patch every season will ole in charge and have won literally nothing. He's had the time and he's done nothing to show that he deserves even more patience or God forbid, more money.
Support isn't lost, support is different. I don't care who the manager is or what he did as a player, I care about what he does as the manager. Ole has never had the pedigree or success for a big job so his failures do not get the benefit of the doubt like pep or klopp. They've earned a few bad seasons or a shock result. Ole hasn't. He got a team relegated. Any club with realistic fans would have wanted him gone after his interim period ended for someone who earned a chance to manage a big club.
I'm so sick of delusional fans preaching "stability". You all realize someone had to be fired for SAF to get the job right? He's had three years and the same problems still exist, we're certainly stable, at being mediocre
Ok, so when defense makes two mistakes and allows two goals, that's criminal. Missing 5 easy chances it is not.
When Leeds presses us, we batter them. AWB tried to stop the Leiscester for their 3rd goal, but the fecker stayed on his feet somehow.
We played well on Wed. People need to accept that. 0-2 was very flattering to Atalanta, and our goals and easy (missed) goal scoring chances proves that. That's all.
‘Top Red’ bingo at its finest.
Same goes for your bud. Maguire settled our defense. Shaw has been out of position in defense over and over again. He runs down the side, makes some cute passes that come down to feck all.
A guy who won two F.A. Cups with us, but couldn't win the league. How standards are dropping. All of a sudden it doesn't matter to some if we win something or not.
The cult of Maguire is strong.
I bet he felt superior typing it too
Yes let's give credit to a manager who came up from 2-0 down at home against currently Serie A 6th place Atalanta. A team btw who had a 20m net spent this season, who spent less then they actually bought the year before and lost their best CB mid way during the game.
We need to learn, very quickly, to play what is in front of us.
We have the vision and skill, mostly, to adapt - add to that the pace that we don't take advantage of as often as we should
We have the vision and skill, mostly, to adapt - add to that the pace that we don't take advantage of as often as we should
SAF (the best manager ever imo), had 25yrs building a dynasty that was unable to really get one over Pep’s all conquering sides. In that time he’d managed to build a club that could entice the likes Rooney, Ferdinand, Tevez, Carrick etc. But still we got d1cked on by Pep twice on the big occasions.
So why is there still a narrative that OGS is a poor PE teacher when in 2yrs he’s got the team 2nd only to Peps 21 in a row city side.
Only four top-flight teams in Europe have had longer winning runs in all competitions – Ajax held the record for 44 years with 26 until Welsh side The New Saints won 27 in a row in 2016, a mark recognised by Guinness World Records.
Fergie couldn’t live with teams putting in that kind of level of performance (Chelsea 04/05) so why should OGS after 2yrs.
United are just a couple of players away from a serious challenge with a squad that has a significantly younger average age than City and Liverpool. Something you could never envisage under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. Thankfully he’s cleared out a lot of the deadwood those 3 left and getting a team proper supporters enjoy watching, with a thriving youth set up. He’s nailing it.
So why is there still a narrative that OGS is a poor PE teacher when in 2yrs he’s got the team 2nd only to Peps 21 in a row city side.
Only four top-flight teams in Europe have had longer winning runs in all competitions – Ajax held the record for 44 years with 26 until Welsh side The New Saints won 27 in a row in 2016, a mark recognised by Guinness World Records.
Fergie couldn’t live with teams putting in that kind of level of performance (Chelsea 04/05) so why should OGS after 2yrs.
United are just a couple of players away from a serious challenge with a squad that has a significantly younger average age than City and Liverpool. Something you could never envisage under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. Thankfully he’s cleared out a lot of the deadwood those 3 left and getting a team proper supporters enjoy watching, with a thriving youth set up. He’s nailing it.
I think a lot of fans don't realise that we have a team made up Galacticos.
If Real Madrid had our squad, they'd be talking about winning the CL and the league double.
We on the other hand, are trying our best to beat the likes of Everton, Leicester and Aston Villa, while attempting to make top 4 in the league and get out of the group stages of the CL.
Fans have been saying this for many years.
The truth is that we have one of the best squads on the planet. I would argue that we have THE best squad. I wouldn't swap and squad of any club with ours.
And where are we with this fantastic squad?
6th place.
1. In this season we are failing to win convindingly against, well, anyone - apart from Leeds and Newcastle both of whom are bottom of the table. How you can compare this to Fergie era is beyond me.
2. We were "a couple of players away" last season. Now we got Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo and are worse. Where is the evidence that we are going to improve with new players as opposed to regress - as it is now?
3. So the narrative now is that we cannot be expected to compete with City. They are not the all time great Barcelona side ffs. They do not have a striker. Liverpool had an even game against them. So we cannot be expected to compete with them either?
4. Our average age is not "significantly" younger than Man City and Liverpool. We are at 26.6 years, Man City at 26.8, Liverpool 27.3 https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/altersschnitt/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2021
5. Shifting the deadwood? What about giving new contracts to Baily, Jones (and never play them even if Maguire is clearly not fit) Mata (again never play him being overstocked in his position), Pereira (eventually struggling to shift him), Grant (why the hell we need 4th senior keeper if he is the coach sign him as such), now Lingard is getting new one. I mean giving new contracts to useful squad players who still play 20-30 games over a season is OK, but none of them ever would (bar Lingard with 10 min cameos and even here not sure since Rashford is back). Giving new contract to a past-it Matic and then complaining about not being able to sign a new CM? Buying VdB for 40m to not play him and not let him go? Buying AwB for 50m and after a couple of seasons chasing Trippier? Any new manager would be "shifting the deadwood" en masse again.
Downgrading what SAF has done to elevate Ole just goes to show how some supporters are quite comfortable living in their fantasy world that one day Ole might nick a league cup or FA Cup for them to believe that all the time invested and all the money spent has been worth it. Absolute joke of a post.
Under some people we're always going to be a couple of players away from a serious title challenge. It's a never ending cycle. If a manager can't mount a proper title with this squad then maybe he shouldn't be the manager.
As for having a significantly younger squad than City or Liverpool, I'd check the facts before posting. It wouldn't surprise me if even the most staunchist Ole supporter on here looks at your post and thinks it's all just pure hyperbolic nonsense.
How have I downgraded abything SAF has done. Bullsh?t
You kind of get sick of giving Ole credit for the most fecking basic of things.
Giving him credit for player deficiencies that clearly fall under the purview of coaching.
People giving Ole credit are not United fans
Of course he is.The only credit he deserves is that he isnt a toxic cnut like Jose.
Only lost because we were down to 10 today. Unlucky. They scored with every other chance they had.
Youve either downgraded what SAF has done or exagerated how good Ole is. Youre saying because SAF didnt win the league every year Ole should be given the same grace. As if they have the same traits in managing.