"Always", as in, it happened once. Seriously, one time. 1.
Get behind the manager and club
- Thread starter Nou_Camp99
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"Get behind the club" one of those phrases that lack meaning.
You can, but that doesnt mean that this couldn't be a healthier forum. Something is wrong when the Ole out thread is getting more posts than a post match thread straight after a game.
When people care more about resuming that argument than actually analysing the football itself, that's got to be a sign that the argument has gone beyond the relative state of the football team
Exactly this. Football (generally sports as a whole) is such a great business when it comes to brand loyalty & the majority of us would follow United even if Ole got us relegated. Football fans are 'sticky' although when you think of it, it doesn't make sense because the manager is actually far more relevant than the bricks and mortar/badge/history of a club regarding what you actually pay to watch on the pitch. That's the point, this is isn't free - it costs a huge amount of money every year just to watch a PL team on tv, let alone when you can visit stadiums.
Having said that, this season is the first time since I started supporting United 30 years ago or so that I've found myself indifferent to actually watching the game, I'll have it on but I'm hardly engaged, because we are becoming a manifestation of everything I dislike in football - negative setup, not exciting to watch, no consistency, almost never score from open play & that's despite having so many top level players across all positions. There is a time and a place for pragmatism and WBA at home is not it. Even under LVG when it was boring I could appreciate what we were trying to do and LVG's passion was evident for everyone to see and it's that human element I really miss at the moment, with Ole everything is by the book/predictable and we just seem to be in 2nd gear...everyone's aware it's a bit average but somehow everyone's happy with it. Maybe it's the lack of fans and also VAR being so slow and emotion-killing that plays into me feeling that way in fairness but I really hope something changes soon.
The top red mentality is that if you stay loyal then you will eventually be rewarded by the football gods with success, as happened under SAF. And it will be all the sweeter because you kept the faith in the dark times. And meanwhile your faith will make you a bigger person within the club hierarchy - a sacred figure who has the deepest belonging, rather than the plastic glory hunters in their armchairs. A 'proper fan' is an almost holy figure in his own eyes.
But what they are missing is that the Glazers don't give a toss about them or their fantasies, and nor are they, the Glazers, even wanting or trying to succeed in SAF terms. Rather, they are deliberately placing the club at the point where they can spend the least amount of money to get the most revenue. Which is roughly fourth place in the league. So ironically the top red becomes the Glazers' biggest enabler.
Just as "entitled supporter" - as if we could actually do something to "earn" success.
You wouldn't pay for the product, but if Coke execs pissed in the tin, you wouldnt be having a go at the manager would you?
Whats the point in commenting on a post that compares watching United to drinking piss?
Well said.
Boohoo I cant deal with banter on social media and me mates so I'll back losing to get rid of Ole over supporting the team because we aren't at Liverpool's 5+ years of one manager levelz..
What's he failed at then?
First season he steadied the ship. Second season he delivered top 4. This season is 8 games in.
He hasn't failed......yet. Long way to go as yet. If he gets two consecutive top 4 finishes that will be the first time we have done that since 2013 so basically since SAF.
OP has certainly changed his tune from the Mourinho era:
One of the most damaging things Solkjaer has done is to make everyone accept mediocrity.
Absolute hogwash. Every single word of it.
You really believe that the only reason anyone wouldn't want our manager sacked is because they think it makes them a better fan? What about if they thought he was doing a good enough job to warrant more time? Is that really so hard to understand?
They are fecking that up though, spectacularly: we spend title-challenging money for top 4 fights. It's not exactly Arsenal 2006-2014 - that, I think, would be the Glazers' dream. Instead we keep breaking transfer records just to go nowhere.
If that were the case, they wouldn't immediately resort to insulting those who disagree. Read the first line of this OP and tell me it's NOT about considering himself a superior fan to the rest of us.
We live in a democracy, well at least most of us do and Manchester United the club is firmly placed in a country that practices it. Manchester United is a corporation, football is a business, these players earn a hell of a lot of money and we need to match it with earnings. Messing with blind faith on a football forum is incredibly naive, what on earth is the purpose? Out of the thousands of fans on here, millions in the world, the criticism towards the current manager will be perfectly weighted and there is nothing such a thread can change. The holier than thou-mentality does not make anyone a better or more important fan than someone who is more negative and spends more time asking for change. As soon as the game starts, everyone will be rooting for United to win expect for the very few in a minority. Who cares about them, really? Even in the perfect world under Sir Alex, I am sure there were negative people wanting to sack him even after a trophy was in the bag. The world is full of idiots - especially on an anonymous internet forum, the extremities will always appear.
For me; keeping blind faith is equally as ignorant and harmful as being overly negative and finding problems where there are none. We should never reward incompetence, "staying with the manager" is not a United-thing, the argument of keeping Sir Alex on after a rough start isn't valid anymore, we find ourselves in 2020 - there are far too many financial consequences involved. Awarding mediocrity when it comes to managers and players is incredibly dangerous - it paves way for mediocre results, lack of development, demotivated players, stagnation, lower collective demands among fans - and falling behind others that are on a better path. Suddenly we are 5-10 years behind the best teams because we have failed to replace those who are not able to perform up to task. To conclude; "getting behind the manager" is not something I am going to do if I have made my mind up about his glaring incompetence and lack of development with a group of players that are capable of producing much, much better results and entertainment. I will in no way wish for losses so that he is kicked out sooner, but I cannot pretend to be happy whilst we are served a product in a world of entertainment that is way behind what I feel is possible. After two years, we have great players in and out of the team, the tactics change seemingly based on forum opinions (yeah, I actually think the man in charge reads this forum) and most importantly, we are not able to integrate chemistry between great attacking players. We are behind even Brighton when it comes to utilizing the player collective, which is very alarming.
For me; keeping blind faith is equally as ignorant and harmful as being overly negative and finding problems where there are none. We should never reward incompetence, "staying with the manager" is not a United-thing, the argument of keeping Sir Alex on after a rough start isn't valid anymore, we find ourselves in 2020 - there are far too many financial consequences involved. Awarding mediocrity when it comes to managers and players is incredibly dangerous - it paves way for mediocre results, lack of development, demotivated players, stagnation, lower collective demands among fans - and falling behind others that are on a better path. Suddenly we are 5-10 years behind the best teams because we have failed to replace those who are not able to perform up to task. To conclude; "getting behind the manager" is not something I am going to do if I have made my mind up about his glaring incompetence and lack of development with a group of players that are capable of producing much, much better results and entertainment. I will in no way wish for losses so that he is kicked out sooner, but I cannot pretend to be happy whilst we are served a product in a world of entertainment that is way behind what I feel is possible. After two years, we have great players in and out of the team, the tactics change seemingly based on forum opinions (yeah, I actually think the man in charge reads this forum) and most importantly, we are not able to integrate chemistry between great attacking players. We are behind even Brighton when it comes to utilizing the player collective, which is very alarming.
It literally happened twice, 2 times 2nd half of the season.
”Get behind the manager and the club” is the definition of sheep talk. No Wonder this club have no ambition with fans that demand nothing and accept mediocrity.
But that's what watching us is like right now. 2 years and hundreds of millions. And this is what we've got to show for it. We still can't see any evidence of a coherent plan. Can you tell me what Ole's plan is for us at home? Can you explain why we start every single match like we've overdosed on valium? 2 years is some managers whole tenure. LVG only lasted that, and it's not like we didn't get to see his philosophy in action by that time. So how much longer are we supposed to wait for it to fall magically into place?
Changed my tune how exactly? Pretty consistent on Pogba tbf.
And Jose had to go purely because he gave up. He decided to sulk and play Mctominnay at CB at Westham. But I will still maintain to this day that Woodward should have gone before even Jose did. Woodward is the biggest failure at the club. Always has been.
Ole hasn't even failed yet. So far he's only had one full season to judge and he achieved the goal. The new one is 8 games in. If he doesn't meet his goals this season he gets the boot. He hasn't even been given the chance to fail or succeed yet and fans want him gone. It's crazy.
Obviously true.
If that's the case, they're not only greedy - but stupid, incompetent, what you like. They have tossed away millions. Having - maintaining, through constant contract renewals - one of the biggest wage bills in world football simply isn't in line with a basic "penny pinching" approach.
If you have zero ambition beyond keeping your team there or thereabouts (the top four trophy - which is worth what exactly in terms of income?), you don't sanction world record transfers and insane individual wage deals freely. Unless you're an absolute idiot, that is. But then you are - precisely, and foremost - an idiot, and not a cold, calculating penny pincher.
The first time it "happened" he wasn't the manager in the first half of the season! You understand that, right? That makes quite a bit of difference. He improved on MOURINHO, not on his own performance.
It is. He says Ole has not failed yet and we should come back in May but has written off Awb at 22
This annoyed me so much on Saturday. Surely, you set your team out and say, lets get at them in the first 10, press them get the ball show them we mean business. This is OT you are coming.
Instead, we laid the carpet and said welcome to OT, please familiarise yourself with the pitch the dimensions and we will sit off you and wait for you to give us the ball.
I can't understand the top red mentality. SAF didn't succeed because he was given time, he succeeded because he was the goat. If Ole had broken up the Old Firm dominance, and won European trophies with Aberdeen, then I would be all for giving more time. But you don't give time for times sake. Do they think Bayern would have been so dominant last season if they hadn't got rid of Kovac? I get the impression the 'top red' has suspended reality altogether though, with their success coming from their unwavering faith in their master instead.
I think the the Glazers would love to see us win for the bragging rights. I can't imagine they enjoy seeing us play so poor. But I agree that the Glazers are only after the CL places to keep us relevant, and would let the club somewhat rot. It's this apathy why I think they're massively incompetent too. They let poor managers waste hundreds of millions, without any footballing structure to guide them, only to repeat it all again a few years later. They could have gotten a much better return on their money if they had admitted they didn't have a clue what they're doing, modernised the football side, bringing in a dof to oversee each managerial change, retaining some continuity instead. It's crazy to think after 8 years of failure, these hot shot businessmen are still repeating the same mistakes.
Tbh it's not him.
It's a result of 7 years of repeated disappointment and people finally understand and accept the reality that we're no longer the pinnacle of English football. And we won't come back anytime soon. As long as Ed and the Glazers are here.
We have no proper RW for like 5,6 years. Tell me what club want to win big silverwares did the same. We're merely a club with no direction, no leadership and our biggest ambition is top 4 every year.
Whilst all this is true, the fact remains that our manager has a very talented squad to work with. There is little excuse to not build on last season after he was provided with a quality LB, striker and midfielder.
i don't think you can do both, and thats problem, more people like you think you can do both, nothing will change your way.
No there's not.
Just because 8 league games into a new season, with 90 points still to play for, you feel like you've waited 'long enough' doesn't mean you're entitled to anything. It's exactly the same as saying for 'I want it now because I don't want to wait anymore'.
I think most of us are on the same page regarding Pogba. It's time he left for new pastures and we spent his money on a Grealish or Sancho, you won't find many arguing against that.
Greenwood needs time, he's just turned 19, youth are inconsistent and there is always a chance you can overplay them and cut short their careers. Also, he's had some personal issues with the suicide of his friend and the media going to town on him so it's a good idea to keep him out of the team for a while. Williams on the other hand looks like he may not have a United future, only time will tell.
You take Pogba and De Gea out of our team and our squad earns a competitive wage in comparison to those around us, and that does not account for the likes of Jones and Lingard who are on £100k and don't even play.
Patience is a virtue. We've improved year on year and the players you mentioned are all getting better but they are inconsistent. With consistency, we will be a much, much better team.
We can't be "sure" of very much, admittedly. We can't be sure that we won't win 28 of our remaining 30 league matches, but that seems highly unlikely to come to pass.
The point at hand is that we have, at least so far, regressed from our performances last season. Regression is a serious worry for United supporters who are desperate for progression. We all expected to be knocked back a bit for a year or two after Sir Alex stepped down, but we're now 6 or 7 seven seasons into this transition and we really can't argue that United have improved in any meaningful way from what we saw under Van Gaal and Mourinho. So no, we can't be sure that we won't get to 80 points or more, but we have no reason to believe on the basis of what we've seen so far that we'll match our points total of 66 last season. Our play is arguably worse and we've been gifted points on the back of questionable referee decisions (pk's not awarded to West Brom and previously Brighton) that if awarded and assuming the pk's were converted would have us on 4 fewer points today. We can't ride this luck much longer.
That said, it wouldn't take much to lift us from poor performances to very good performances. If Martial and Pogba can find their form once again we're a squad that can compete well with any other in the league (bar Liverpool, perhaps) and go on a long run of wins. We're all waiting for those two to kick into gear this season. When they do, 66 points is well within reach.
First, our squad is not very talented, I'd say decent. Even Spurs have a better squad than ours.
Second, you really think he'd beat Liverpool or City to the title in a normal season after adding VDB, Telles and Cavani?
I do not like this penalty argument. People are actually forgetting how bad our football has been. Under Jose we used to have 1/2 shots on target all game. We are at least creating 6/7 chances now.
I don't quite recall the Brighton pen? Also, VAR has been consistent on the penalties like Bruno, Villa in the game earlier were not given a pen for a similar thing. Against Chelsea, Thiago kicked Rashford and a pen was not given. If we are looking at soft penalties against us, Martial's shirt was being pulled back too? But ofcourse that doesnt help the agenda so no one will mention it.
We need Martial to kick into gear, not Pogba because he will always be inconsistent.
It seems to me most Caftards acknowledge that our squad has imperfections. And that there are serious problems with management that has led to the imperfect squad that we have and the dodgy performances we've been witnessing for many seasons now.
We're all a bit spoiled, myself included, from what SAF have us for more than two decades. But we're not irrationally spoiled, which is not a contradiction in terms. We've spent close to a billion in net transfer spend over the last decade yet we're still scraping by over clubs like Brighton and West Brom and losing to Palace and Arsenal. We're no serious threat to Liverpool for the PL trophy. And our play overall is inconsistent at best.
Spurs, on the other hand, have not won a trophy in ages and haven't spent anywhere close to what we have spent and here they are, a legitimate contender for the PL trophy (it will be Liverpool, but Spurs are definitely in the conversation) and they'll happily accept whatever tactics Mourinho provides them to get close to touching the trophy. Maybe their luck runs out or maybe they'll consistently grind out 1-0 and 2-0 wins, as United so frequently did in the last years of SAF's reign. Either way, they're accomplishing what they set out to accomplish and we are not, at least not yet.
Pogba brought down a Brighton player early in the second half. It was originally called a pk but the decision was overruled by VAR. I'm not sure it was the wrong call to overrule the original decision. We were fortunate, but it just might have been the right call.
I'll get behind him out of sympathy. I doubt we will win anything in the slightest under Ole but we chose him so we have to make do.
Well they might believe that, but only if they choose to ignore the wider context of how the club is being run, and assume that everyone running the club is acting in good faith towards the same goals that the top red has, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But the truth is that the Glazers are not acting in good faith and Ole is there as part of that plan, lovable little imp though he is.
The problem is that once the top red accepts all that then his religion crumbles and he has to accept he is just a particularly gullible customer of an American owned business with no special status or worth. And then he's not a top red any more.
So yes - top reds do have to believe this rubbish in order to be top reds. It's what marxists call a false consciousness.
Tbh I feel sad for Ole or whoever would be our next manager.
I was a PM managed a software development team few years ago.
My best developers always wanted to jump, and everyone else wanted a raise. If I was too rigid they hated me, if I was too nice they became lazy.
Then I had a boss who was perfectly clueless and super stingy yet love to dictate everything. And he only love his money.
My customers were even more clueless yet they wanted everything fast, perfect quality and cheap.
My time there was so painful, a nightmare. Guess it's more or less the same for any United manager now I think.
I was a PM managed a software development team few years ago.
My best developers always wanted to jump, and everyone else wanted a raise. If I was too rigid they hated me, if I was too nice they became lazy.
Then I had a boss who was perfectly clueless and super stingy yet love to dictate everything. And he only love his money.
My customers were even more clueless yet they wanted everything fast, perfect quality and cheap.
My time there was so painful, a nightmare. Guess it's more or less the same for any United manager now I think.
Delusional top red at it again. Grocery list of excuses to hide the fact that United have been awful this season. Optimistm is one thing, creating a thread to attack fans that don't agree is another. This makes RAWK look grounded in it's height of delusion. More whataboutery to hide the sad fact that Ole isn't going to take us back to the top.
It's so easy to suddenly now mark Spurs as having a better squad. Amazing what proper coaching does, hey?
Of course we have an extremely talented squad. VDB, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani, Martial are class players. Telles is a very good left back, I don't think there's much between him and Regulon (if I remember correctly some people in the caf even preferred him when we were linked with both). Wan Bissaka is actually a solid right back who was one of the best in the league for Palace, and our holding midfielders are very talented too. Fred is one of the best ball winners and then you have Pogba to use or not use, up to the coach on how best to make use of him.
That sort of quality should be capable of more consistent performances even in this topsy turvy season. We were actually pretty bad vs Brighton, slow vs Chelsea, bad vs Arsenal, slow vs Newcastle, bad vs West Bromwich. That's not normal and it's not just part of this season, it's actually a follow-on from a downturn in form last season where we struggled against Leicester, Southampton, got knocked out by Sevilla etc.
And just to be clear we aren't expecting a title win, but we are expecting to do a fair bit better than 61 points, and Ole has all the tools to achieve this. He has no excuse for not showing good progression on last season's tally.