Donny + Martial - Is There a Way Back?

RedDevilCanuck

Quite dreamy - blue eyes, blond hair, tanned skin
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
8,587
Location
The GTA
If they smash it on their loans will we cash in or bring them back?

Mason could be AWOL and we could have some more departures in the summer.

Our manager seemed to rate both players.

I think Martial has a bigger chance of coming back.
 
It depends on the new manager. Personally, I see VDB coming back and Martial leaving. This is based on absolutely nothing btw.
 
Ballache said:
It depends on the new manager. Personally, I see VDB coming back and Martial leaving. This is based on absolutely nothing btw.
Click to expand...

I agree. But say Seville win the league with Martial spear heading it, I think we'd have him back with Cavani leaving.
 
Like Ballache says, my hunch is also that DvB returns, while we offload Martial somehow. Pretty much regardless of how they perform on loan. Martial sale would obviously be an easier task if he tears up La Liga, but don´t see him returning, i think the bridge is burnt. Same way Lingard will only be used very rarely due to his strange behaviour lately,
 
With Cavani and Greenwood gone (and ideally Ronaldo) we're two forwards short. I don't think we'll be in a position to lose Martial if he does well. Bringing in forwards is expensive.

Van de Beek will be gone unless we go for Ten Hag and I still wouldn't expect him to be a starter.
 
Yes but it's less about the names and more about not having to burn more money replacing squad players and not having first teamers in lower cup ties. There are other places that need reinforcements in the XI without also having to reinforce their backups.
 
Martial will stay at Sevilla. They'll like him and make him their star man.

Everton will send Van de Beek back and we will struggle to move him.
 
I don't see Martial as a starter here. He's gotten quite enough chances and with the exception of few brief purple patches, he's been very disappointing. VDB probably has a future here, especially if Ten Hag comes. Depends on how he performs. We've hardly ever seen him play, so this loan should show if he is good enough or should be sold.
 
GwilDor said:
Martial starting tonight vs Osasuna btw, for those interested.
Click to expand...

I'll be watching. It's intriguing as he's our player, I'm a fan, he's obviously playing for a France WC place, and Seville are in a title race.
 
Yes though I’d be surprised if Donny does enough. We need a CF and the striker market is slim pickings so it’s up to Martial.
 
These don't feel like your regular loans, they are more down to the shit show this season has become and how unhappy the squad is. We're going to lose enough players next season that I can see both of them sticking around.
 
Martial is finished at United. His issue was never talent. He's always had that in spades. Martial's problem is mentality and his inability to withstand the pressure. We've clearly seen that, because anytime he was indisputed first choice, he would thrive. Then, when he faced compeition for the shirt, he wilted. After 6 years at the most pressurised and scrutinised football club on the planet, I think we can safely conclude he isn't cut out for it at Old Trafford.

So Martial is simply not a big club player. He's a small club player with pretentions for the big stage. Like Ben Foster. He'll do well elsewhere where there's less attention on him.

DvB is a different case. He seems to have some decent fundamentals. But every minute of PL football he plays he looks like a deer in the headlights. The guy has some very visible deficiencies to his game. But I have no idea where they come from or how easily they'll be solved.

It could honestly go either way for Van De Beek Everton. But there is some possibility for him to still make it here.
 
Martial might have to stay. He could potentially be our only striker. I'm not confident in his ability to perform for us any more, but he might have to stay, due to a lack of players alone. There are only so many transfers we'll be able to make in the summer. I think VDB depends on what the next manager thinks of him. If he's a starter under the next manager, he'll stay. If the new manager doesn't fancy him, he'll leave.
 
Martial will tear up La liga and will sign a new contract here while everton sign VDB.

We have no striker currently so why we will sell Martial is a puzzle. Nobody else out there we can get that is better than him considering I dont think we can sign Haaland.
 
If the player puts in "cant leave me out of the team" performances he could have taken a dump outside of Ragnicks office drunk of his ass on a Wednesday.

Unless someone does something that warrants the termination of your contract, there is always a way back for absolutely anyone. All you need to do is become the undroppable Bruno of your position. Or at the very worst be the obviously best option we have.

How easy, or even realistic that is will have to be up to the player. But in Martials case the answer is straightforward: He needs to score goals. Lots of goals. If he doesnt he is not of any use to the team. He doesnt play in a supporting cast role, he is a striker.

As for Donny, that will take some work. Two managers have found him surplus to requirements. Maybe he will have a better time under Ten Hag, but should we rely on players to only be good enough if they play in one particular setup under one manager?
 
If Pogba leaves, Greenwood is never seen again and Cavani/Ronaldo leave you’re talking about needing a DM, ST, CM, RW and possibly another ST in one summer. Plus a young CB if Bailly/Axel leave. And a GK if Henderson leaves. With that outlay I just don’t see us getting rid of either of these if they tear it up on loan.
 
I think Donny has more chance of returning despite having accomplished less as there is less water under the bridge and a hire like ETH would completely alter how he is viewed within the squad. I am not sold on him but everything really hinges on the next Manager.

The situation with Tony is different in that he flat out asked for a transfer without waiting to see how things would be under RR which tells you his issue is not with the manager so much as with the club as a whole. I think he feels his career has stalled and he has been here too long so wants a fresh start. I expect him to do well on his loan and he will have suitors in the summer. Unless he has a huge change of heart I don’t see him choosing to stay.
 
Dante said:
Martial is finished at United. His issue was never talent. He's always had that in spades. Martial's problem is mentality and his inability to withstand the pressure. We've clearly seen that, because anytime he was indisputed first choice, he would thrive. Then, when he faced compeition for the shirt, he wilted. After 6 years at the most pressurised and scrutinised football club on the planet, I think we can safely conclude he isn't cut out for it at Old Trafford.

So Martial is simply not a big club player. He's a small club player with pretentions for the big stage. Like Ben Foster. He'll do well elsewhere where there's less attention on him.

DvB is a different case. He seems to have some decent fundamentals. But every minute of PL football he plays he looks like a deer in the headlights. The guy has some very visible deficiencies to his game. But I have no idea where they come from or how easily they'll be solved.

It could honestly go either way for Van De Beek Everton. But there is some possibility for him to still make it here.
Click to expand...
I think Ronaldo will be off this summer. Can’t see him hanging around. Cavani is off. Greenwood is gone. Rashford is not a striker. Martial very well could be the only striker at United
 
I think the Mason thing might give Martial a second chance, provided he wants it.

We started the season extremely stacked up front. Pogba, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Ronaldo, Cavani, Sancho and Greenwood all competing for three positions. Plus the youngsters. It was clearly excessive.

Come summer, we could have feasibly lost six of those eight. Cavani and Lingard are almost certainly leaving. Huge question marks around Greenwood. Pogba and Martial are looking likely to leave. Ronaldo more likely to stay but wouldn't rule out an exit. Even a little question mark around Rashford with rumours of PSG interest.

Regardless of whether they all leave or just four or five of them, it's a huge turnaround that will suddenly leave us desperately short up front. We'll have to spend big unless we hold on to some of them. Which is where Martial comes into the picture. I wouldn't be surprised if he smashes it in Spain. The question is: Will he be motivated to revive his United career?
 
golden_blunder said:
I think Ronaldo will be off this summer. Can’t see him hanging around. Cavani is off. Greenwood is gone. Rashford is not a striker. Martial very well could be the only striker at United
Click to expand...

The question is, where will Ronaldo go? Which CL team will pay him high wages and give him a 2 year contract?
I just don't see him leaving tbh.
 
If they do very well, and the new manager thinks they're worth a place in the team/squad, I'd be all for it.

DVB's best chance is Ten Hag being our favoured choice.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
I agree. But say Seville win the league with Martial spear heading it, I think we'd have him back with Cavani leaving.
Click to expand...

But will Martial want to stay? I personally would get rid, if he does will with Sevilla its a perfect time to cash in on him, don’t make the Lingard mistake, get rid of these players with suspected attitude problems
 
Ballache said:
The question is, where will Ronaldo go? Which CL team will pay him high wages and give him a 2 year contract?
I just don't see him leaving tbh.
Click to expand...
Well the rumours are already starting. I could see him doing a year in Portugal and a year in USA
 
It's very rare to see +22-25 yo loaned players that find success in their returns.

Maybe Martial has more potential to improve due that his profile may adapt to Sevilla and the fact that United are scarce on forwards with Greenwood probably rescinding his contract. I think VDB's problem is that he has had time to adapt, he has failed to make a place for himself within the team, has failed to convince Solksjaer, Ragnick and even Van Gaal with the Netherlands and has proven not being competitive.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I find very hard for any of them to return and make it to the starting line up. Lingard had an excellent spell at West Ham, gaining a playing level he had never achieved at United and the best we could have done was selling him... but no, he returned and reverted back to his pre-loaned self. United could have obtained a good profit from his sell and now are struggling.
 
We need to move on from Martial, seriously. He's been here for six years, he's had some good spells, but ultimately he (and we) need to move on. That's done

Bit different with Donny. Hasn't been here that long, and hasn't really had much of a go for a multitude of reasosn. If he can have a good spell for Everton and prove he can "do it in the Premier Legaue" as the cliche goes, then I can see him sticking around.
 
Ballache said:
We'll see. I think he stays next year and goes to the US for a couple of years.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, apparently he’s going to decide once he knows who the next manager will be.
In which case we need to forward plan
- get the manager identified early
- if it’s too late, Ronaldo may walk away in which case we’re scrambling for another CF late in the window. I hope we’ve thought about that possibility
 
I see none of them regardless. Martial has been bad mark by 3 managers, even a 4th one won't see anything new. Get a decent price and move on.

VDB is like Makit, Kagawa, not a bad player, in fact a good and honest player, simply doesn't fit into our system. VDB should do well in Arsenal, but not here. He is not a #10, a poor #6, a slow winger, so where would you fit him in? Are you going to change the system for him, as we did for Pogba? Find the right player that suit our system, move on.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
If they smash it on their loans will we cash in or bring them back?

Mason could be AWOL and we could have some more departures in the summer.

Our manager seemed to rate both players.

I think Martial has a bigger chance of coming back.
Click to expand...
We get ETH, you bet your sweet ass Donny is coming back. Martials United career is over.
 
Martial will be leaving for sure as he asked for a transfer even though a new manager was coming in. Which pretty much means he didn't even want to try and fight for a spot in the team. DVB could come back and become a regular though.
 
We're going to lose Cavani, Lingard from our frontline end of this season and Greenwood is, likely, never going to play for us again. Ronaldo, too, maybe gone if we don't get UCL football but he will be gone certainly next season.

We'll be left with Sancho, Rashford and Dialo. That's it.

And Martial is going to be shipped if he has a good loan? I highly doubt it. He stays.
 
Depends on the manager I guess. They are two very different players with different styles. DvB is a system player, so under Ten Haag could be interesting. Having said that, I thought DvB would get a real chance uner Rangnick, so you have to wonder is there something we don't see?

With Martial, he's more mercurial and can produce that moment of magic. Problem is, his magic is too few and far between to have him as a passenger week in, week out when he's not on it.

I feel like both of these players are on the cusp, and how they perform at their respective loans and who we bring in in the summer will be the deciding factor. Both still could have a future here, but Martial to me is less likely at the moment given it seems he's desperate to move, whereas DvB seems to have unfinished business here.
 
Best part of their loan is it will show their true level as some fans refuse to see these two aren't good enough for United.
 
Martial? No. I don't think he will fit our style going forward. His holdup play is alright but he's not clinical enough.

VDB, not sure. Jury is still out and he just might be the kind of player the new manager likes to have. Might have to be a sub though.
 
Don’t think either of them want a way back tbh… fairly sure they both want to leave but Utd weren’t happy to let them go - I’m guessing because of sell on fee not suiting Utd.

But haven’t they both been pushing to actually get away from Utd?

Doubt either will want back in, possibly VdB, but Martial I think has been gagging for ages to restart his career elsewhere.
 
Martial has to go, he’s has his chance and it’s time to move on. We seem scared to let players go, look at all the players we kept on last summer who’ve contributed virtually nothing, cost huge sums in wages and we’ve still been shit.

At some point you have to start being decisive and stop just saying people are like a new signing or look great in preseason before they inevitably revert back to type.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.