Did Rooney fulfill his potential?

If it wasnt for the freaks that are Ronaldo and messi this wouldn't even be a discussion.

In fact if we had never signed Ronaldo than Rooney's numbers would probably be alot better, he sacrificed himself so that ronaldo could produce the numbers he did for those 3 seasons once he left Rooney had an outstanding season putting up some very good numbers.

The way he fell of a cliff somewhat is probably the most disappointing thing about his career, he lost his edge physically and struggled with stamina once he got into his late 20's, he was still a fine player for a few years but nothing like the monster he was in his early/mid 20's.

He was a vital part of one of our most succesful teams in our history, won everything at club level and he is Englands record goalscorer I think he fulfilled his potential, he was just never quite on the same level as Ronaldo/Messi.
 
Which player in history did really fulfill his potential ? Certainly not Best, Maradona, the other Ronaldo, Cruyff (43 goals in 5 seasons at Barca was hardly his potential)

In theory you could add Messi to that list - for him to only score 37 goals in 95 competitive matches for Argentina is so far off his potential as you can come.

Rooney was a star at one of the best clubs in the world for over 10 years - so he was closer than most.
 
Nope. He wasn't professional enough. He smoked and drank and pissed about with his health.

He was a world class player but the fact he was done at 29 tells you pretty much everything you need to know.

That said I still love the guy and he's one of my all time favourite players - doesn't deserve half the abuse he got or still gets, and was still twice the player Kane is. His crime was that if he took care of himself better he'd have carried England to trophies and done even more than he did, which is hardly an insult in and of itself given his incredible career.
 
spiriticon said:
Ask him to dictate the tempo? No problem.
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He was never capable of that, that's why he failed the transition to central midfield. He had a great passing range but that wasn't enough.
 
85% I'd say. He didn't have the extreme level of professionalism that Ronaldo does. He enjoyed enjoying himself a little too much and had a slight destructive streak on a personal level.
 
No where near came close to his maximum. Some days he was unplayable but they were not very many in a season. He was consistently good but not consisently great in my opinion.
 
lysglimt said:
Which player in history did really fulfill his potential ? Certainly not Best, Maradona, the other Ronaldo, Cruyff (43 goals in 5 seasons at Barca was hardly his potential)

In theory you could add Messi to that list - for him to only score 37 goals in 95 competitive matches for Argentina is so far off his potential as you can come.

Rooney was a star at one of the best clubs in the world for over 10 years - so he was closer than most.
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I think there's a difference between reaching your peak and sustaining it for a prolonged period. Maradona*, Cruyff and Messi had reached their peak and sustained it. Van Basten is another – he had to stop playing at 28, but we probably wouldn't have seen a different, better player rather than simply peak van Basten performing for a few years longer. Best & Ronaldo didn't (although it's possible that they wouldn't have gotten much better). I'd argue that Rooney didn't as well — if he had performed at the level of pre-injury 2009/10 season for a couple of years, then it would've been a different case.

* you can debate me on that, but I think that it's a bit unfair to say that the highest individual peak in history wasn't enough.
 
Messi and Ronaldo have dedicated themselves to football and really looked after themselves. That’s helped with the longevity.

They’ve also not played in the Premier League all their career, which no matter anyone says, is far more competitive and “rougher”. Do we think Ronaldo and Messi would have hit the numbers they have, playing in the Premier League ever week?

Saying that, he was brilliant for a period. However he must reflect himself and think he hasn’t fulfilled the potential of that 16/ 17 year old that burst into football. He could have and most likely should have been so, so much better.
 
I suppose ask yourself the question. He had more natural ability than Zlatan at 18. He’s had the better career?
 
Rooney stats wise achieved his potential. All time goal scorer for club and country, winning multiple titles etc.

But I do wonder if he could have been mentioned in the same bracket as Messi and Cristiano. He was unreal when he was on form
 
All timeTop goal scorer for club and country and was a lot more than a goal scorer and was dubbed the White Pelé!
Got to be happy with that on your CV.
 
He finished United and England’s all time top scorer and won everything at club level so that’s a great career. He didn’t reach the heights of Ronaldo or Messi but very few do.

Shame how much he dropped off though, he went from world class to garbage in the space if 18 months, he was finished at 30 which is a bit bizarre.
 
RedBanker said:
No he did not. He burst on to the scene at Everton as a kid who was the complete package. Skills, eye for goal, pace, movement off the ball. He never fulfilled that goalscoring potential. His career should have been about eight seasons of 20 plus goals each and two or three of 30 plus. He had one goalscoring season when he hit the numbers commensurate to his talent.
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YA, but tbf, as he was a complete package. In United, SAF managed him as a all around player, not just only eyes for goal-scoring. Also, he's not the main target man in RVN and Ronald era but he was jumped out to goal score when RVN and Ronald all gone.
 
Obviously a great player. SAF often said though that it always took him a run of games to play his way back into form after injury. As many others have suggested, perhaps if he looked after himself a bit better away from football he wouldn’t have needed a run of games to hit form.

unfair to compare perhaps but a much older Ronaldo has come back after coronavirus and immediately started scoring.
 
Longshanks said:
If it wasnt for the freaks that are Ronaldo and messi this wouldn't even be a discussion.

In fact if we had never signed Ronaldo than Rooney's numbers would probably be alot better, he sacrificed himself so that ronaldo could produce the numbers he did for those 3 seasons once he left Rooney had an outstanding season putting up some very good numbers.

The way he fell of a cliff somewhat is probably the most disappointing thing about his career, he lost his edge physically and struggled with stamina once he got into his late 20's, he was still a fine player for a few years but nothing like the monster he was in his early/mid 20's.

He was a vital part of one of our most succesful teams in our history, won everything at club level and he is Englands record goalscorer I think he fulfilled his potential, he was just never quite on the same level as Ronaldo/Messi.
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His numbers might be better but his trophy cabinet would be emptier
 
Jeppers7 said:
His numbers might be better but his trophy cabinet would be emptier
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Why? It's not like we wouldn't have found a winger that would have supplemented Rooney up top.

And for our CL winning campaign, the strongest part of the team was the defense. All credit to Ronaldo and co of course
 
His health I think is blown out of proportion. Yes he smoked sometimes but which footballers don’t, it’s just he got caught.

Comparing any players professionalism to Ronaldos is unfair as he is just on another level entirely.

Rooney had world class talent and a tier below the generational talent of Ronaldo and messi.

Rooney basically won every club trophy, won the player of the year in England and came in the top 5 in the ballon d’or. I think he lived up to the hype.
 
Most definitely, one of the best players England has ever produced, could have had better numbers if he was willing to be more selfish, but realised football is a team game more then anything and United won a lot of titles because of that attitude, maybe stayed at united to long and people will remember some of the poorer performances near the end, but he was a top player
 
Castia said:
He finished United and England’s all time top scorer and won everything at club level so that’s a great career. He didn’t reach the heights of Ronaldo or Messi but very few do.

Shame how much he dropped off though, he went from world class to garbage in the space if 18 months, he was finished at 30 which is a bit bizarre.
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This sums it up.
 
adexkola said:
Why? It's not like we wouldn't have found a winger that would have supplemented Rooney up top.

And for our CL winning campaign, the strongest part of the team was the defense. All credit to Ronaldo and co of course
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Ridiculous post.

We did get a winger to supplement Rooney when Ronaldo left and we went from winning
3 x Premier leagues
1 x Champions leagues
1 x Club World Cup
2 x league cups
(In three seasons)

to winning
2 x Premier leagues
1 x league cup
(In the next four seasons)

Let’s not even look at what Ronaldo went on to win after he left and how he drove Madrid on to multiple CL’s and Portugal to National success.

Perhaps I’m forgetting our defence left when Ronaldo did?

You’ll always miss one of the greatest players to ever play football, and he had an impact when he was here that was unmatched when he left.
 
His own personal potential? Probably

Our own view of his potential? No he didn’t quite. Could have looked after his health a bit better
 
No. He had a much higher ceiling. Could reach CR7 level if he were as professional. On his day, Rooney was unplayable. Shooting, technique, passing, outstanding physique and work rate.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Ridiculous post.

We did get a winger to supplement Rooney when Ronaldo left and we went from winning
3 x Premier leagues
1 x Champions leagues
1 x Club World Cup
2 x league cups
(In three seasons)

to winning
2 x Premier leagues
1 x league cup
(In the next four seasons)

Let’s not even look at what Ronaldo went on to win after he left and how he drove Madrid on to multiple CL’s and Portugal to National success.

Perhaps I’m forgetting our defence left when Ronaldo did?

You’ll always miss one of the greatest players to ever play football, and he had an impact when he was here that was unmatched when he left.
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But our midfield did start to wane by the end of SAF’s tenure
 
treble_winner said:
At his prime, Rooney is an absolute force of nature. He is better than Suarez, Costa and Aguero. His prime didn't last that long, though.
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It's all subjective of course, but I think Suarez's last season at Liverpool was as good as any of Rooney's peak seasons. Still prefer Rooney though, as he was always willing to do what was best for the team, even during his peak years (ie. deferring to Ronaldo.)
 
Jeppers7 said:
Ridiculous post.

We did get a winger to supplement Rooney when Ronaldo left and we went from winning
3 x Premier leagues
1 x Champions leagues
1 x Club World Cup
2 x league cups
(In three seasons)

to winning
2 x Premier leagues
1 x league cup
(In the next four seasons)

Let’s not even look at what Ronaldo went on to win after he left and how he drove Madrid on to multiple CL’s and Portugal to National success.

Perhaps I’m forgetting our defence left when Ronaldo did?

You’ll always miss one of the greatest players to ever play football, and he had an impact when he was here that was unmatched when he left.
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The next four seasons Ronaldo only won 1 league and 1 Spanish cup
Infact Ronaldo only won 2 league titles in Madrid.
 
MrBest said:
What a silly forum. Of course he reached his potential, he just peaked very early on in his career (24 or 25). He is United and Englands record goal scorers, that is no fluke. Also his temperament was his strength, i think when he was asked to curb it, we lost Rooney. From 18 to 24, what a player. Countless titles, the champions league, heck he won every club trophy.
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To be fair United's goal scoring record was hardly impressive, before Rooney, United's leading goal scorer was a CM (Bobby Charlton) and neither was England's (good chance Kane's going to break Rooney's before 30).

Rooney's potential was to lead England to silverware, similar to what Maradona did with Argentina. Sure he's well decorated at club level, but I’d argue he wasn't the main catalyst in United's success, he was just a cog.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
It's less anomalous when you consider that Messi and Ronaldo didn't spend their free time drinking and smoking.
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While living the lifestyle of an athlete certainly helps it doesn’t guarantee you won’t decline early.

I doubt the likes of Kaka were out pinting smoking and eating badly a few nights a week and yet he still declined in his late 20’s.

Some players just peak early and subsequently decline early.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Ridiculous post.

We did get a winger to supplement Rooney when Ronaldo left and we went from winning
3 x Premier leagues
1 x Champions leagues
1 x Club World Cup
2 x league cups
(In three seasons)

to winning
2 x Premier leagues
1 x league cup
(In the next four seasons)

Let’s not even look at what Ronaldo went on to win after he left and how he drove Madrid on to multiple CL’s and Portugal to National success.

Perhaps I’m forgetting our defence left when Ronaldo did?

You’ll always miss one of the greatest players to ever play football, and he had an impact when he was here that was unmatched when he left.
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It's not a ridiculous post. Remove Ronaldo and replace him with a top winger that serviced Rooney, and we would be strong favorites for the PL and CL. Don't forget that in 2008 we brought in Tevez, Nani, Hargreaves and Anderson. I find it hard to believe that SAF (in the absence of Ronaldo) would have left a huge gaping hole on the right wing.

I'm not saying that Ronaldo wasn't important to us (arguably our most important player) in that timeframe. I am just saying that in a world where he didn't exist, we would still have been strong favorites for those trophies we won.

And your before/after analysis is flawed. Doesn't compensate for Tevez leaving, our defense ageing, and SAF finding no value in the market. Still, we won 2 leagues and made it to a CL final with those factors. I'd like to think, apples for apples, we'd be fine.
 
adexkola said:
It's not a ridiculous post. Remove Ronaldo and replace him with a top winger that serviced Rooney, and we would be strong favorites for the PL and CL. Don't forget that in 2008 we brought in Tevez, Nani, Hargreaves and Anderson. I find it hard to believe that SAF (in the absence of Ronaldo) would have left a huge gaping hole on the right wing.

I'm not saying that Ronaldo wasn't important to us (arguably our most important player) in that timeframe. I am just saying that in a world where he didn't exist, we would still have been strong favorites for those trophies we won.

And your before/after analysis is flawed. Doesn't compensate for Tevez leaving, our defense ageing, and SAF finding no value in the market. Still, we won 2 leagues and made it to a CL final with those factors. I'd like to think, apples for apples, we'd be fine.
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Regarding Tevez, we brought in berbatov who had already replaced him, hence he left and had little impact in his last season anyway. Are we saying the defence immediately aged ? Because I’m talking about 3-4 seasons, I’m adding the fourth season in the comparison as it actually fits your argument not mine because we won the second league title that season, not 5-6 seasons.

Let’s stick with 3 seasons then if we’re worried about ageing. 1 league and 1 league cup.

There was a world where he didn’t exist and immediately the club were less successful and the trophy cabinet became more empty. As for apples for apples, are you suggesting that if we replaced Ronaldo with Messi it would’ve been fine? Because I agree with that.
 
dal said:
His health I think is blown out of proportion. Yes he smoked sometimes but which footballers don’t, it’s just he got caught.

Comparing any players professionalism to Ronaldos is unfair as he is just on another level entirely.

Rooney had world class talent and a tier below the generational talent of Ronaldo and messi.

Rooney basically won every club trophy, won the player of the year in England and came in the top 5 in the ballon d’or. I think he lived up to the hype.
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I think Ronaldo gets mentioned a lot, in terms of professionalism because he is such a world class player.

But let's be fair here there are many players who are reknown for their professionalism who don't get spoken of in the same breath as ronaldo. Don't even get spoken in the same breath as Rooney in terms of talent and such.

I'm thinking, off the top of my head, at the likes of say Beckham and the Neville's at UTD. I'm sure the Neville's were said to be tucked up in bed by 9pm or something.

Then you have likes of Giggs and Scholes and VDS who played late into their careers. Shout out to likes of Milner too

Then you have the likes of Zola who because he didn't drink was seen as "strange" at one point on a programme I watched.

Even likes of Dicanio was known for his preparation and professionalism and even things like wearing kit a size smaller so he wouldn't be pulled back.

I'm sure there are players who are not even close to the ones mentioned who very professional in their outlook, at mid table clubs or lower.
 
I’d say so yeah - Rooney 2006-2009 was probably the 3rd best player on the planet in my book so not bad!

Also England and United’s all time leading goalscorer!
 
At club level, sure. But at the international level, something is missing surely? He only has 1 World Cup goal for example. That's a bizarre stat for a striker of that immense talent playing for a big country. Had you predicted that in 2004 after the Euros, people would have never believed you.
 
meamth said:
Like it summarized in the video,

He very well did. It's just he is unlucky to have been in the same era as Messi and Ronaldo.

The only difference between Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi is career longevity, whilst the other two stayed at the top for 15 years, Rooney were on top for at least 6-8 years and steadily declined.
Those two never declined, which is an anomaly.
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I think the main difference was the fact that Rooney was basically an alcoholic. Whereas those two may have a glass of sherry on Christmas day!

I'll always remember the sky cameras aboard the united train to london for the 2011 CL final, there was Rooney sitting on the train eating a packet of crisps and drinking a can of red bull. I doubt Messi was having a similar meal on his way over from Barcelona.

I sort of loved that side of him in a way tbh, but I think that kind of unprofessional lifestyle is firstly why he never was in contention for a balloon dor and secondly why he peaked in his early 20s and was in decline in his late 20s.
 
By chance, I was just thinking about this very question a few days ago.

As great a career as Rooney had, it does feel as though he never realized his full potential. I have no stats to back this up, and there are plenty of stats to back up the assertion that Wayne did live up to his potential, but I still feel like he came up just a bit short of what at least I think his potential was -- to be regarded in the same sentence as Pele and Maradona.

He can't be disappointed with his accomplishments -- numerous individual awards and club trophies. But as great as he was especially in the first 5 or 6 years or his career, it just feels like he left something on the table both for club and country. Not a lot, but something.
 
Certainly. Most goals for UTD and England. He was probably better in his younger years he matured very young, theres not many like him at such a young age. He gave 100% in every match. I do think from around 2012 to the time he left he was just playing within himself.
Maybe he thought I've done enough now . Oh what I would give for that 2008 front 3 Ronnie Rooney Tevez. Memories
 
SirMarcusRashford said:
To be fair United's goal scoring record was hardly impressive, before Rooney, United's leading goal scorer was a CM (Bobby Charlton) and neither was England's (good chance Kane's going to break Rooney's before 30).

Rooney's potential was to lead England to silverware, similar to what Maradona did with Argentina. Sure he's well decorated at club level, but I’d argue he wasn't the main catalyst in United's success, he was just a cog.
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I'd disagree. On the scoring point, Rooney was never an out and out striker, he played many different positions and still got to 250 goals. Maybe he should of scored more but he assisted many too so it unfair to call him a cog. Even his team performances were fantastic, he ran a lot creating space. I bet if you aaked Ronaldo the impact Rooney made, he would say Rooney helped him score as many as he did because he did all the dog work. He pretty much sacrificed his own scoring record to drive the team. He was a brilliant especially his younger years. People often reflect on Rooney in his later years, i think after 25/26 he was awful but in his prime, world class.
 
MrBest said:
I'd disagree. On the scoring point, Rooney was never an out and out striker, he played many different positions and still got to 250 goals. Maybe he should of scored more but he assisted many too so it unfair to call him a cog. Even his team performances were fantastic, he ran a lot creating space. I bet if you aaked Ronaldo the impact Rooney made, he would say Rooney helped him score as many as he did because he did all the dog work. He pretty much sacrificed his own scoring record to drive the team. He was a brilliant especially his younger years. People often reflect on Rooney in his later years, i think after 25/26 he was awful but in his prime, world class.
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Ronaldo went on to score more goals for Real and Portugal without Rooney.
 
MrBest said:
I'd disagree. On the scoring point, Rooney was never an out and out striker, he played many different positions and still got to 250 goals. Maybe he should of scored more but he assisted many too so it unfair to call him a cog. Even his team performances were fantastic, he ran a lot creating space. I bet if you aaked Ronaldo the impact Rooney made, he would say Rooney helped him score as many as he did because he did all the dog work. He pretty much sacrificed his own scoring record to drive the team. He was a brilliant especially his younger years. People often reflect on Rooney in his later years, i think after 25/26 he was awful but in his prime, world class.
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Exactly what i said previous page, i was a big of a young Wayne Rooney as anyone.

But as you said yourself, the guy was finished after 25/26 (or on the decline) so you have to call that a bit of a waste and with that (the title of this thread), never fulfilled his potential.

The guy was only 34 at the start of the season, yet he's playing in the Championship, played in MLS 2 seasons before that and Everton season before that and even for United (and England), we stuck with him for too long.

He's younger than Ronaldo and the Ronaldo is still one of the best players in the world, Rooney should be, 34/35 is nothing nowadays, Giggs played until he was 40, Scholes came out of retirement at 39.
 
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Falcow said:
I think the main difference was the fact that Rooney was basically an alcoholic. Whereas those two may have a glass of sherry on Christmas day!

I'll always remember the sky cameras aboard the united train to london for the 2011 CL final, there was Rooney sitting on the train eating a packet of crisps and drinking a can of red bull. I doubt Messi was having a similar meal on his way over from Barcelona.

I sort of loved that side of him in a way tbh, but I think that kind of unprofessional lifestyle is firstly why he never was in contention for a balloon dor and secondly why he peaked in his early 20s and was in decline in his late 20s.
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Yeah, and we shouldn't be disappointed about it! Had he lived in different era he would've been the greatest player of that era.
 
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