But that's only because you're comparing him to Messi. There's two flaws in that: 1. Messi plays centrally, so it's evidently inevitable that he'll be marked more tightly than a wide player; 2. Robben has played at least two opponents (Spain and Chile) who allow more space by default because they're playing a lot more openly attacking. As I've already mentioned in previous posts, Robben was a lot less effective when he had less space to operate in against Mexico and Costa Rica.
Day 23: Netherlands vs. Argentina
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
But that's only because you're comparing him to Messi. There's two flaws in that: 1. Messi plays centrally, so it's evidently inevitable that he'll be marked more tightly than a wide player; 2. Robben has played at least two opponents (Spain and Chile) who allow more space by default because they're playing a lot more openly attacking. As I've already mentioned in previous posts, Robben was a lot less effective when he had less space to operate in against Mexico and Costa Rica.
That's it folks, marcos has finally lost it!
Be confident ffs, you will beat these cheese eating bastards! I only want to see posts similar to this from now on, none of that shit you wrote above.
marcosdeto said:
Roll on another Argentina win by a 1 goal margin. I was adamant in my defence of Argentina against Belgium when the whole forum pretty much had decided that Belgium were going to be semi finalists. I think @marcosdeto and I were the only people staunch in our defense of the Argies. I think at least they will make the final, and they've been my pick to win the whole thing from pre-tournament discussion.
Just like Argentina haven't been extraordinary yet, Holland has not been very good since the game against Spain.
Just like Argentina haven't been extraordinary yet, Holland has not been very good since the game against Spain.
i'd love that to happen, but i just don't see it, i think our coach is clueless and that so far we won because our players are a lot better than our rivals, wich we where very lucky to face
That's it folks, marcos has finally lost it!
Be confident ffs, you will beat these cheese eating bastards! I only want to see posts similar to this from now on, none of that shit you wrote above.
you kill me, mateYou're right, Sabella does seem a bit clueless. I nearly lost it when he almost fell overi'd love that to happen, but i just don't see it, i think our coach is clueless and that so far we won because our players are a lot better than our rivals, wich we where very lucky to face
i'd love that to happen, but i just don't see it, i think our coach is clueless and that so far we won because our players are a lot better than our rivals, wich we where very lucky to face
How did Sabella get the job? He looks totally clueless. Argentina has produced better coaches than him. Messi's greatness has single handedly covered Sabella's backside.
It's crazy that Argentina could win the World Cup with a Hodgson like boss. Yet you beat Holland in the 78 final and then Germany in 86. The stars are aligning...
...alternatively Holland lost to Germany in 74 then Argentina in 78 so it could be revenge time for them too.
he won the libertadores cup with Estudiantes in 2010 or something and he almost beat barcelona in the club world cup
but i dont think he has the stuff a coach needs to take a team to win the world cup
And they've already beaten Spain...
I always felt El loco Bielsa had unfinished business with the Argentine national squad. The federation would probably never have him back though.
They should be talking to Jorge Sampaoli now Chile are out. I'd be interested to see Simeone do the job someday too but I wonder how he'd manage Messi..?
feck me, another football professor level poster!
Another reason to support the Argies, right here.
The biggest? I think you're being a little sensitive hombre. There are many many others who dive as much, some even have distinct trademark dives (Gerrard).
A little too premature don't you think? Argentina is still favorites in this match and if anything is to go by, the bookmakers odds are usually very reliable. So far in the knockout round, all the bookmakers' favorites have won/qualified to the next round.
Here's a question for Marcos or anyone else who may know a bit more about Sabella.
What on earth was he doing taking off both Lavezzi AND Higuain both before the 80 minute mark? Argentina were well on the back foot in the second half and it seemed like Sabella didn't realise that if they nicked an equalizer they'd have had to go into extra time in penalties with ONE attacking threat in Messi (You can't count Palacio, he's a plumber not a footballer).
What on earth was he doing taking off both Lavezzi AND Higuain both before the 80 minute mark? Argentina were well on the back foot in the second half and it seemed like Sabella didn't realise that if they nicked an equalizer they'd have had to go into extra time in penalties with ONE attacking threat in Messi (You can't count Palacio, he's a plumber not a footballer).
I have no idea. I thought that he
was going to sub Biglia
I think the Argies will reach the Final, because their attacking force is too much for this Dutch side. They will then, most likely, lose to Germany, which has really good defence and not too shabby in attack. It's funny because I think the Dutch can give a better 'fight' against the Germans, instead of the Argies (based on their squad strength and weakness).
But it just seems like everything is lining up for Argentina, though. They were starting with relatively 'weak' group, Messi's late goals, Messi's new found mojo, and faced possibly the weakest route to SF against Switzerland and Belgium. Then their team are also starting to gel better.
Then the Argies go into the Semi-Final against team with possibly the weakest defence, which exactly Argies strong point; as I think they'd have lesser chance against either Brazil or Germany. It reminds me of United route to our last CL Final.
But it just seems like everything is lining up for Argentina, though. They were starting with relatively 'weak' group, Messi's late goals, Messi's new found mojo, and faced possibly the weakest route to SF against Switzerland and Belgium. Then their team are also starting to gel better.
Then the Argies go into the Semi-Final against team with possibly the weakest defence, which exactly Argies strong point; as I think they'd have lesser chance against either Brazil or Germany. It reminds me of United route to our last CL Final.
If Brazil go through then I want Argentina to progress.
Same. I thought he was making a rod for his own back by leaving himself with no real attackers with over 10 minutes to go. I also don't understand why he keeps subbing Lavezzi off when he seems to be the only one with a bit of pace and who can continually carry the ball. Even in games where Higuain was huffing and puffing he still pulled Lavezzi off.
That's exactly what I was alluding to when I referenced Argentina under Pekerman in the '06 QF against Germany. Sabella's first instinct is caution and conservatism, that's clear in everything from the final selection of his 23-man squad (some favourites of his, esp. the GKs and Basanta for example) to his use of subs in matches. It seems to me that he has no real tactical sense when he makes his subs, he just has these pre-conceived notions in his mind that he won't diverge from. So far Argentina have been lucky to not have fallen behind at any stage in games, because I sincerely doubt Sabella would know how to reverse such a situation. The first game against Bosnia is the exception when it comes to tactical adjustments, but that was only because he'd been too cautious in the first place (5-3-2) and he just reverted to what had been their usual set-up throughout most of the qualifying campaign (4-3-3).
I agree with all of that. It will cost them eventually though. I think he made a mistake omitting Banega too. They've barely got a creative player in midfielder who can control and move the ball quickly, Benega can.
I don't think Argentina have a great squad, potent attack aside, but I also don't think it's dire enough to require their manager to have them defending for 45 minutes against Belgium. If they are lucky enough to get a lead against the Dutch, they're be punished big time if they take the same approach, in my opinion anyway.
I like the thought of Holland beating the German's in the final. With LvG in charge and Van Persie scoring the vinning goal we (Utd) could even claim part responsibility!!
If the Netherlands win this match. Probably de Jong will play in the final..!!
Have people looked at Aguerros scoring record and compared it to RVPs when they make these calls?
On the match - I cant call it tbh. I think the dutch are better set up right now, but Messi is Messi.
i think aguero is better than RVP/ just my opinion
According to the BBC, Di Maria is injured but Aguero has declared himself fit after a hamstring injury in the group stages. That can only be good for the Netherlands and bad for City. I can't see how Aguero isn't taking a huge risk coming back so soon from a muscular injury like that, even if it was just a strain.
Cheers.
I'm Dutch and if you beat us I also hope you'll win it. I agree with you we deserve a world cup for our football history. Alhtough it would be kind of weird if we got there with this team, which really probably is the poorest squad we ever brought to a world cup. But whereas we deserve to win a world cup, the same obviously goes for Messi. I obviously hope we win the match, but if we lose I hope Argentina win the final as well.
It will be an interesting match. I don´t really know what to expect from Argentina. Against Belgium they seemed to play a little more cautious compared to the other games. They didn´t give away as much space as they did against Bosnia, Iran, Nigeria and Switzerland. Not sure if that was because Argentina took the early lead, or because the coach simply decided to be more careful this time.
If we get the space Argentina gave the opponent in the first four games, I fancy our chances. Robben and Van Persie will know how to use them. If Argentina keep it tight like they did against Belgium then it will be difficult for us. We don´t have the quality to tear apart a tight defense. I already knew that and it was also clear against Costa Rica. The same goes for Argentina though. I´m pretty sure we´ll play the same game we've played against Spain and Chile, 5-3-2 leaning back and trying to counterattack. But as I said, not sure what Argentina will do. Will Argentina go for it and attack like they did in the group matches and against the Swiss? Of will they be more cautious. In that case it'll probably be a boring tactical match. First goal most likely to be decisive.
I fear a little bit the atmosphere on the pitch. Hopefully it won't be an agressive match with us trying to take Messi out of the game physically and Argentina doing the same with Robben. It might get ugly, but I really hope not. It won't be good for the match and both teams don't need suspensions for the final.
Football.
Netherlands will definitely concede - I can't see their slow defence coping with Messi too well. Thing is, they have the potential to put 2 or 3 past Argentina easily if Robben and van Persie click. This could really go either way, obviously I'm rooting for Netherlands but I won't be surprised to see Argentina pull through. The other semi will be more straightforward IMO.
I didn't think that anything could change me wanting Holland to win.
Likewise, if Germany go through, I want Holland to progress. It will be a far greater spectacle if the final is also a rivalry.
Tough one this. If Di Maria and/or Aguero was fit I would go with Argentina but it makes it difficult. I know Aguero has reportedly declared himself fit but I can't see him being 100% match fit. Both teams can be got at defensively.
Holland have to play on the counter if they are to win this though. I think Argentina will come out pretty naive and Holland may be able to pick them off on the counter, if they remain solid at the back.
Holland have to play on the counter if they are to win this though. I think Argentina will come out pretty naive and Holland may be able to pick them off on the counter, if they remain solid at the back.
Tough to call this one.
Holland have certainly had the better performances. Their last game was probably the worst, though you could say they took a rather pragmatic approach and spent the entire 90 minutes of normal time waiting for the one chance they knew they'd make. Shame RVP fluffed it. On the other hand their opening game remains the performance of the tournament so far & they've impressed (in one way or another) in every other game.
Argentina have barely managed a decent half. Maybe their first game, thats about it. And they've lost Di Maria, who hasn't done all that much in the tourney but is only been behind Messi in terms of impact for them. Along with Belgium & Russia they should get the award for party poopers of the tournament, the handful of teams that have failed to get into the all out attacking spirit that everyone else has joined in, despite having probably the biggest collection of attackers around.
So at one level you'd have to say that Holland are clear favourites. And yet somehow I get the feeling that its not going to be as straight forward as all that.
LVG has done such a good job this tournament that people have forgotten that Holland have a pretty ordinary team, with the exception of RvP & Robben (maybe Sneijder).
Argentina on the other hand, despite their very weak midfield creative options, still have quality players in attacking positions and probably have the better defenders as well.
When the stakes get higher, the better players show their stuff, and I think Argentina have the upper hand in that regard.
I reckon we'll see a much improved Argentina side but a similar level of Holland performance, making it very close. Impossible to call, but I'll be supporting Holland.
What I would say though is that even before Krul came on I really fancied Holland in a penalty shoot out - RvP, Robben, Sneijder, Kuyt and Huntelaar is a pretty awesome collection of penalty takers. I'd put money on 5 out 5 goals every time. I think Argentina can't let it get that far.
Holland have certainly had the better performances. Their last game was probably the worst, though you could say they took a rather pragmatic approach and spent the entire 90 minutes of normal time waiting for the one chance they knew they'd make. Shame RVP fluffed it. On the other hand their opening game remains the performance of the tournament so far & they've impressed (in one way or another) in every other game.
Argentina have barely managed a decent half. Maybe their first game, thats about it. And they've lost Di Maria, who hasn't done all that much in the tourney but is only been behind Messi in terms of impact for them. Along with Belgium & Russia they should get the award for party poopers of the tournament, the handful of teams that have failed to get into the all out attacking spirit that everyone else has joined in, despite having probably the biggest collection of attackers around.
So at one level you'd have to say that Holland are clear favourites. And yet somehow I get the feeling that its not going to be as straight forward as all that.
LVG has done such a good job this tournament that people have forgotten that Holland have a pretty ordinary team, with the exception of RvP & Robben (maybe Sneijder).
Argentina on the other hand, despite their very weak midfield creative options, still have quality players in attacking positions and probably have the better defenders as well.
When the stakes get higher, the better players show their stuff, and I think Argentina have the upper hand in that regard.
I reckon we'll see a much improved Argentina side but a similar level of Holland performance, making it very close. Impossible to call, but I'll be supporting Holland.
What I would say though is that even before Krul came on I really fancied Holland in a penalty shoot out - RvP, Robben, Sneijder, Kuyt and Huntelaar is a pretty awesome collection of penalty takers. I'd put money on 5 out 5 goals every time. I think Argentina can't let it get that far.
Aside from the 2nd half against Spain I haven't been particularly impressed by the Dutch at all. I think it's amazing that LVG has got a tune out of this pretty mediocre squad and limped them to the semis.
2-1 win for the Argies.
2-1 win for the Argies.
You seem to forget that Argentina played 0 good halves this WC.
Not at all. I think both have been pretty poor this tournament so far which is why I think it will come down to match winners and Argentina have Messi.
Match fit for Aguero means he has 20mins in him before he'll get subbed. He should really stop rushing himself back from injury
Holland will win, because of Arjen Robben.
Such a tough one to call. With Argentina there's no balance to the side and a shocking defence, while Netherlands are a pretty average side bar a couple of top forwards. If both come out of their shell a little to try and take advantage of a dodgy defence, we could see something pretty special from Robben and Messi.
On paper they are average but Kuyt, de Vrij; Cillesen for instance have also been brilliant. And LVG is thousand times better than Sabella.
3-2 to LvG