Why are you sad, are you Dutch or Brazillian?Unfortunately, I think Argentina will win this one.
Day 23: Netherlands vs. Argentina
- Thread starter gooDevil
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
robben to score the winner.
btw what an awful stadium!
btw what an awful stadium!
Argentina will beat Netherlands because their defence was very good in knockout, their midfield is improved with Biglia providing more protection than Gago, their team is more balanced. Higuian has found his form which is important. Di Maria is a big loss but Enzo Perez did pretty well against Belgium : very comfortable on the ball and able to make good play.
Netherlands's main weapon is counter attack by Robben and aerial threat. I think the current Argentina team is capable of dealing with them.
In addition : Netherlands played extra time compared to Argentina. And the next game will be in three days. That might prove the difference if the game between them goes to ET.
Netherlands's main weapon is counter attack by Robben and aerial threat. I think the current Argentina team is capable of dealing with them.
In addition : Netherlands played extra time compared to Argentina. And the next game will be in three days. That might prove the difference if the game between them goes to ET.
I think Netherlands will win this. they have their own Messi in Robben and even more options on the bench. Argentina without Di Maria and Aguero doesn't even look good on paper and if RvP shows up this time, it will be too much for them.
2-1 Netherlands.
2-1 Netherlands.
Robben is possessed, he will attack, control midfield and defend again for 90 and possibly 120 minutes against the Argies.
Who would go through is really up in the air, if the Dutch finish off their chances (Van Persie, please find your shooting boots) they might have a good chance, otherwise it is Argentina who will take the cake.
Who would go through is really up in the air, if the Dutch finish off their chances (Van Persie, please find your shooting boots) they might have a good chance, otherwise it is Argentina who will take the cake.
Also to shed some more light on Holland - Costa Rica's game last night.
The Netherlands had 18 shots against 1 shot from Costa Rica. On any other day Holland would have beaten Costa Rica 7-0 and we would all be claiming they will go on and win the WC.
Truth be told, this Dutch team surprises in how united they are and how strong their will is to win. If they put in that performance against the Argies and this time are more clinical, I don't see why they wouldn't advance.
The Netherlands had 18 shots against 1 shot from Costa Rica. On any other day Holland would have beaten Costa Rica 7-0 and we would all be claiming they will go on and win the WC.
Truth be told, this Dutch team surprises in how united they are and how strong their will is to win. If they put in that performance against the Argies and this time are more clinical, I don't see why they wouldn't advance.
Because I prefer Netherlands to Argentina.
I would be more worried about Robben than Messi. To be honest I couldn't say who would win, it'll probably go down to tactics.
Think this is spot on but I think only one goal will be difference here.
Messi agenda
This game could turn out to be the best game of the tournament if everyone plays to their potential. That said, I think the level of tactical flexibility shown by te Dutch so far puts them at a slight advantage. They'll win, then lose to Germany in the final.
At this point, you've got to hope Netherlands win the World Cup. Think about it - if van Gaal wants a player, how could anyone turn down the opportunity to work with a world champion? The lack of CL wouldn't be a factor I'd imagine.
On the other hand, I want a final between Brazil and Argentina. The arguably biggest football rivalry in the history of football in a World Cup final. If it happens, it's a shame Neymar and Di Maria will miss it.
On the other hand, I want a final between Brazil and Argentina. The arguably biggest football rivalry in the history of football in a World Cup final. If it happens, it's a shame Neymar and Di Maria will miss it.
Argentina and Brazil I reckon would be a painful watch of Diving and constant whistle blowing.
I want Germany v Holland which is another huge rivalry.
Argentina just need to stay tight to him. Robben's been afforded a lot of room in the tournament, if they make him work before he can get turned and run it should go some way to keeping him in check.
This forum is quite funny. It's just so obvious who is gonna win to the educated eye. It's no wonder you guys are where you are with fans like these.
It's Hollands WC. I reckon Argentina might be humiliated. They leave space at the back and have no intelligence whatosever. It's clear who is going to win. You can ban me if it doesn't happen.
It's Hollands WC. I reckon Argentina might be humiliated. They leave space at the back and have no intelligence whatosever. It's clear who is going to win. You can ban me if it doesn't happen.
Its probably 50/50 on who will go through but I hope Netherlands make it. Rvp needs to show up though, been really poor since the first game.
hahahahhaha, so wrong.
Unfortunately, I think Argentina will win this one.
Yeahhh, Robben is the biggest diver, cheater in the whole WC.
Also, Wesley is becoming better and better. This is a world cup winning team, no doubt about it.
Actually he's been afforded less space against Mexico and Costa Rica (because here Holland weren't the reactive side any longer) and despite still being the most dangerous player on the pitch in both encounters, his end product was duly curbed. Compare for example his performances against Spain and Chile (on paper more impressive opponents than the aforementioned two) where he was a lot more effective, because here his team could play the counter.
Re: Arg-Ned game, it's actually a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, a deep defensive Arg will dull some of Robben's edge (whether it'll be enough is up in the air), but will at the same time severely limit Messi's attacking game without a Di María/Agüero type player on the pitch.
fair enough but I lost count of the number of times he received the ball in acres of space last night against Costa Rica last night. The only reason he was shut out so much was because ever Costa Rican knew he was determined to come back onto his left foot. He needed to mix it up a bit. The Mexico games is the only one I never saw so I can't comment on Robben in that game, all I saw was his dive!
Guaranteed right now that won't happen with Messi, he'll end up somewhere in the middle of a few Dutch players and will as always, have to pick his moments very carefully.
WTF! I just agreed to this -- yes you're spot on, except for the over exaggeration in your post. Holland will edge it and probably go on to win the tournament, I have been telling people this and all have disagreed with me. well... not that it bothers me one bit, anyone with a football knowledge can see this. The Argies are yet to impress me with their style of play plus, as said, they leaves a lot of spaces at the back which Van gaals men will be happy to exploit needless to say, they are just individuals, I have watched all of their games and I can't say they have impressed me so far, Messi the only one capable player in the now, maybe if Messi could pass to Messi they would stand a chance, however, as seen, nobody else is capable of doing the bits he has been showing this tournament except for Di Maria who imo had a very good tournament. it's a shame he has now been ruled out for the remainder...
The reason Sneijder has improved and his influence on his side has grown in the knock-out stage is because they've faced teams who've largely left the initiative to them, as opposed to their group stage opponents who dominated possession of the ball (note: even then Sneijder found the opportunity to play a lovely assist for Robben's 2nd goal, I believe?).
v Spain: 36% possession, Sneijder attempted 30 passes [3 key passes, 1 assist]
v Australia: 50% possession, Sneijder attempted 53 passes [2 key passes]
v Chile: 32% possession, Sneijder attempted 18 passes [1 key pass]
v Mexico: 56% possession, Sneijder attempted 53 passes [1 key pass, 1 goal]
v Costa Rica (aet): 67% possession, Sneijder attempted 85 passes [2 key passes]
Thought he was much better yesterday. Playing him deeper gives him the extra amount of time he now needs. This was a player that should've won the Ballon d'or 4 years ago, he can still be fantastic: his fitness has improved dramatically and it makes an incredible difference when he actually cares.
I missed the first half of the Argentina v Belgium game, did Argentina try to dominate? Is that what we should expect in this game, Argentina pushing and the Netherlands playing on the counter?
Can't see Argentina pushing... I think they are trying to defend with 8 players and hope that Messi or Di Maria (not anymore) or even Higuain find a way to the net. They played extremely defensively against Belgium.
Maybe, but he was still a step above most others on the pitch, especially in extra time he seemed to step up a gear. Against Costa Rica I wasn't even that overly impressed with his runs/dribbling, because as you note he was sometimes a little too predictable and the Costa Ricans always got back in time to block off his trademark move. In the Mexico game he had a couple of nice dribbles which were responsible for the penalty/diving controversy (the one where he blatantly looked for the contact of the Mexican DF who was already on the ground and the soft one at the end that earned him the pen), but overall I thought that was probably one of his poorer games so far.
Like I said it wasn't his dribbling per se that impressed me against Costa Rica, but the fact that he played a couple of lovely reverse passes into the CR box which were promptly wasted by his team mates. My point on him still stand I think, while he's still extremely dangerous and hard to contain there's a noticeable difference between his last two games and the three group games in terms of effectiveness (3 goals, 1 assist in 3 games v winning a penalty in the next 2 games).
Considering Messi and Robben's respective performances yesterday I think it's fair to say that the latter now has a decent lead in the "best player" discussion. While Messi's 1st half was good, he wasn't at all helped by Arg (Sabella's?) conservative approach to the 2nd half, also missing two players with whom he has the best natural link-up on offensive plays, Di María and Agüero, resulting in him becoming something of a non-factor. I'd say last night was the first time that Robben had to really play in similar conditions to Messi for Arg during this WC so far and it showed that even the most in-form players can't do everything by themselves -- that said he was still one of 2 stand-out players last night, the other being Keylor Navas. (Costa Rican 5-man DF and Sneijder were also pretty good).
Argentina will win it, The Dutch defenders will get turn inside out by Messi in current form.
Messi walked around all of the second half apart from the one on one at the end.
We just got to hold on one half and he's physically a goner.
We just got to hold on one half and he's physically a goner.
Old Iron Bollocks will go for it I think and start with two strikers. Van Persie to break his duck and score the winner. If Di Maria isn't playing, the Dutch can afford to assign a man marker to Messi.
Arg tried in the 1st half yes, with some success. 2nd half was pure conservatism by Sabella, and in the final quarter most of the possession and momentum was with Belgium. Also reflected in the final possession stats: 54-46% in Belgium's favour. Worth noting that Arg have been the side averaging most % possession in the entire WC (well actually, 0.1% less than Spain, but the point still stands), mostly because of the games against Iran and Switzerland.
I'd wager they would probably have taken the initiative if they had Di María available. Now it's anyone's guess what Sabella will do, but the safe bet is on caution IMO. So, no, I don't expect Arg to push too hard.
will be a cautious match imo. The Dutch don't normally go gung ho. With the Argies losing Di Maria their best attacking option after Messi...they will not expose themselves as they know what the Dutch can do.
Think Robben will be the difference.
Messi deserves a shot at a WC final but this one shapes up as a Netherlands win. The Argies will not set up a parked bus from the first minute and when the match gets into a back and forth rhythm the Argies will have no answer for Robben.
As good as Messi is, he can only do so much. I can already see LVG come up with another one of his master tactics and this time will be to counter Messi's Productivity. Shall they manage to suss him out of the game, you can only see one team emerge winners, and that team is Holland.
True, but that had more to do with Arg's general lacklustre approach to the 2nd half. They didn't really care for keeping the ball and just cleared everything upfield... Chasing longballs isn't Messi's game, he lives for short combinations and one-two's and his team mates barely even looked for him in the 2nd half.
So while his physicality has severely diminshed from his peak performance years (2008-11), I wouldn't really call yesterday a good example of that fact. Extra time against Switzerland was more of a give-away, as he looked absolutely shattered at certain points, but even then he still registered his fastest sprint of the entire match (27 km/h) in the 118th minute to assist the winning goal.
Argentina defended well because they were winning. When the match was even argentina was dominating and attacking.
Yep, that's my thinking as well. Can see Sabella going with Biglia in MF again (a more defensive-minded option compared to Gago). The biggest question will be who he puts instead of Di María... if he goes for Enzo Pérez again, which seems quite likely, then that should make for a very cagey match indeed.
I'm not really fussed with all the best player at the world cup bollocks, but yeah Robben still played very well. All I'm saying is he's not exactly being closed down or smothered out of games. Teams could make him work harder but I think he's been fortunate to come up against sides who were willing to take a chance going forward, leaving space for him.
Indeed. However, I don't think that was a particularly great idea from Sabella. At a certain point it became reminiscent of Pekerman's decisions against Germany in the 2006 QF and that backfired spectacularly. For example, I don't think Argentina are capable of defending a lead against the likes of Germany or Holland without a Di María type player who can cover lots of ground ánd be lethal on the counter when there's space to run into.