Criticism is fine (and encouraged) but there are some criticisms thrown at Ole that don't make any sense

1) Ole is inept tactically

He's not tactically inept but he's not at the level we need. Personally I wouldn't take those comments literally. They are usually said in the context of a club of the statute of Manchester United. Our ambitions are to win and regularly challenge for the PL and CL. Teams who do that tend to have top class coach. Ole has never been a top class coach and under him we've never looked a team managed by a top class coach.

So this criticism usually has merit (unless taken literally). Hopefully people don't point to the odd big game we won as I don't think anyone consider the likes of Bolton or Blackburn as brilliantly coached back in the day. This point is to do with the quality of football and it is on point IMO.


3.) Ole has ignored the midfield problem

He absolutely has. Three years in, a fortune spent and the only midfielders we've signed are goalscoring/attacking midfielders. If he genuinely prioritised possesion play as crucial in his coaching style we would made one or two additions to give us better buildup from midfield - even if it involved a cheap punt or two. Don't forget, we have signed James, Pellistri and VDB for over 50 million. And a manager who wanted possesion play to improve wouldn't have signed
 
Leroy The Red said:
Saved me typing it. You'll get people coming in here quoting him and saying 'top post' but it's not really. The basic premise of the thread does ring some truth. Ole quite clearly isn't completely useless and has many positives as a manager however the two points wumminator presumably tries to dismiss because of a selected sample size are an indication that indeed as he himself admits, "I don't really understand a lot about football myself ". Using the fact we fall behind an excessive amount of times and turn it around to point to tactical nous and strong game changing ability when we have far superior players to most of the teams we play against is actually a really naive thing to do. It also fails to take into account the style of football and the consistency in our performances which seemingly are irrelevant in his world.

The problem I've noticed with you @Wumminator is that you don't always seem to be able to see the bigger picture. You criticise people a lot for talking in absolutes but you kind of do the same thing to be honest. I've said this many times but Manchester United are going to win the majority of games they play because they have better individuals than most teams. If Manchester United fall behind to weaker sides you'd expect that they will turn it around. These are not the games that define Ole. The ones that define him are the ones he gets wrong and he'll be judged on the amount of times that happens. That's how it works at the top, we're not Leeds or West Ham. We shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back for doing things we're supposed to do. So when games like PSG, RB Leipzig, Villarreal, Leicester happen and they go as badly wrong as they did, all in a similar fashion, expect lots of criticism. This cannot continue to happen this season and basically it already did against Southampton. But I guess we came back and drew 1-1 in that game so fantastic right? We got it right in the end tactically?

I know he's competing against World Class managers and we by no means have a faultless team. However a top manager with exceptional in game management would have walked away with two Europa League trophies in the last two seasons.
Click to expand...
Why hasn't pep won the champions league since Barcelona? I'll take a quote from you "His failure to do this speaks of obvious tactical inadequacies, that doesn't mean he won't have days he gets it right, we know he will but top managers don't get it wrong this much. It's that simple." I don't believe that but you could say the same thing for Pep then. He has coached the best teams in said leagues but hasn't won the cl since he left Barcelona.
 
Last edited:
tomaldinho1 said:
Exactly this.

No one aside from some Wums think Ole is tactically inept, many simply think he's not elite level & we aspire to be an elite football club. For the team we have to not have won anything, when even minor trophies were in our reach, should worry even the most ardent Ole Inners around. Villarreal, Seville, RBL, Leicester games aren't random one offs, losing to City (x2) and Chelsea are ok but even then, we regularly do well against them in the league, it seems at crunch time the big name managers always get one over Ole.

People will keep referring to how hard it is for teams to challenge City but, actually, since Ole has come in we've had Arsenal, Leicester, Chelsea, Pool winning trophies domestically and internationally. It's very open.


An an aside, why does anyone praise or criticise Ole for players salaries/fees? Ole will say 'player x or y can go' and that's it, he's not negotiating anything...it shouldn't even be discussed as part of his pros or cons.
Click to expand...
That’s the frustrating thing. I don’t think many in previous years have demanded league title and Cl success but there were other competitions there for us to win to try and build a winning culture and we failed to do so.

Kelly15 said:
Why hasn't pep won the champions league since Barcelona? I'll take a quote from you "His failure to do this speaks of obvious tactical inadequacies, that doesn't mean he won't have days he gets it right, we know he will but top managers don't get it wrong this much. It's that simple." I don't believe that but you could say the same thing for Pep then. He has coached the best teams in said leagues but hasn't won the cl since he left Barcelona.
Click to expand...
Well yeah. It’s well documented and spoken about that Pep has done his own legs in a lot of the time in the Cl and his failure to win it is quite a big deal. However this is obviously offset by winning multiple league titles and other trophies as well as having his teams play great football. So by large he’s getting it right most of the time.
And apart from Lyon I don’t think his CL exits have come against significantly weak opposition. We’ve been dumped out of Europe by Leipzig, Sevilla, Basaksehir and Villarreal and at the same time not won anything else nor do we play particularly good or dominant football. That would be the difference between Pep and Ole here.
 
I feel the reality is Ole is nowhere near as bad as his critics claim but is also perhaps not good enough to be an elite manager to rank alongside Klopp, Tuchel, Guardiola, Conte etc.
This season will really tell a tale I suspect.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I will back ogs as much as possible and will never want him fired but I can see easily that he is sometimes inept tactically, out thought by other managers, has ignored the midfield problem and has at least had a say in keeping Deadwood at the club.
Click to expand...

Posts like this are part of the problem.

Do you even know what 'inept' means? Or are you just using it in a context you've seen and heard it used elsewhere and thinks it enhances the standard of a point because it sounds clever?

There are plenty of games where Ole's tactics have been well worked. I'm not going to break it all down, if you can't remember or whatever then just look at some tactical analysis on YouTube or something. Some of the systems he's implemented against the likes of Tuchel, Klopp, Mourinho and Guardiola as well as multiple formation systems are there, you don't really see it broken down on sky etc because they are actually really poor at analysing games. They are watered down and they tend to just point out the obvious. They rarely break down the off the ball pressing system etc but other people do, so go and check it out.

Every manager gets things wrong. Guardiola is frequently hailed as the top manager in the world right now and he ballsed the CL final up, as well as getting outdone by Solskjaer and other managers, it happens. Fergie got done over many times. Tuchel came unstuck against Solskjaer including with a PSG team with Mbappe and Neymar whilst we had a 17 year old Greenwood, Chong and Brandon Williams.

Off the top of my head, go and check out the game we ended City's 21 or whatever game it was unbeaten run. There are plenty of games out there which will breakdown Ole's tactics.

To say inept just tells me you don't know what words you're using and you're likely repeating a narrative you've read and heard so much you've assumed it's true because you don't know better. Just be honest and say "when I watch football I don't notice all of the tactical nuances". There's nothing wrong with that, most people don't. If you watch any fan analysis post game, it almost never goes into any sort of depth.

Personally I'm guilty of ball watching in a live game. It's why I watch the games back because I can watch for things rather than be focused on what might come next. I also tend to try and watch a few breakdowns outside of sky or wherever because they are generally better at analysis than I am.

I'm not even going to bother with the other points, he obviously hasn't just ignored the midfield problem, he's had certain limitations to work within and there's at leat a degree of sometimes having to pick one thing or another when you want to do both. In 2 and a half years he's achieved a fairly remarkable turn around in terms of the squad. It won't happen over night but we've gone from starting the likes of Lingard, Pereira, Williams, Smalling and Jones to Varane, Bruno, Sancho, Maguire and Cavani. If you expect a turn over of an entire squad in less time then that's your own expectations. I'd imagine we would have wanted one or two more moved on but you can't sell players if you don't have a buyer.

Who is all this dead wood? I imagine you're referring to Mata, Jones and Matic? Maybe Lingard? In a squad of 25 players that's hardly a pressing issue, is clearly a large turn around. In case you've forgotten, the likes of Young, Fellaini, Smalling, Darmian, Rojo, Sanchez, Valencia and Pereira have all been moved on since he took over as well as a host of other players.

I'm not saying he's the best manager in the league but your post is lazy and sounds like someone who gets their opinion more from what they see and hear than from objectively looking at the situation and trying to offer a rounded and fair reflection.
 
Kelly15 said:
  • Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has become the first
    Manchester United manager to have won his first three away games against Man City.
  • The Norwegian has guided United to win all three visits to the Etihad Stadium in his reign after the Red Devils had a miserable record in that ground before his arrival.
  • Moreover, Solskjaer is also the only manager to have beaten Pep Guardiola more times (4) than he’s lost (3) in over three competitive clashes between them.
  • 66 other managers have not been able to do so in the past, including the likes of Jurgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho!
And Ole has has the inferior team. How could this be possible when he is "tactically inept".
Click to expand...
This stat is seriously underrated and Ole has gotten it right most times against Pep. However, our overall stats against the top 6 sides last season was not as satisfying.

Played: 10
Won: 2
Drawn: 5
Lost: 3

It's not that bad but still a lot more should be expected from the team this year. I don't see any reason not to trust the Ole process, since we've performed better and better over time under him.
 
Wumminator said:
I've been meaning to make this thread for a while. There seems to be some people who think that there are fervent Ole inners who can't take any criticism of the club. That is simply not true. What I (and others evidently) on this forum can't stand are illogical and stupid arguments. Here are some of them:

1) Ole is inept tactically
The fact Manchester United have just set a record for the longest unbeaten record is evidence of this. You simply can not go that long in the most competitive league unbeaten if you don't have a clue what you are doing. The fact that Ole has the best record against Pep of anyone who has ever played against him (as far as I am aware) should also go to dismissing that fallacy. If you want to argue that tactics can be improved, then I would love to read your posts. I don't really understand a lot about football myself. But the idea that he's completely useless is thrown around here a lot and it doesn't follow.

2) Ole is poor at changing the game
The simple fact that we have come from behind to win so often is proof that this is also nonsense. We gained thirty-one points from being behind at different points last year. That is insane. The idea that follows that Ole doesn't react quick enough or is poor at making subs is therefore silly as well. Are there instances where Ole didn't make the exact decision you would have done? Sure. Is Ole clearly understanding the pattern of the games and adapting accordingly. Well obviously.

3.) Ole has ignored the midfield problem
Not at all. He just can't solve everything at once. We are now seeing Ole assembling the most exciting United team for almost a decade. But there probably is an issue with our midfield. The problem is before this window there was also a problem with our right wing and our CB. At centre back we've just signed a world class defender (as far as we can assume so far) and means we now have a great back up option in Lindelof to rotate. Otherwise we were one injury away from relying on Baily and Tuanzebe. Sancho will hopefully prove to be an exceptional talent in a role where we literally had Greenwood and Dan James. Now of all the pressing concerns we had, CB and RW seemed to be a massive priority. Effectively we've spent 90 million this summer and upgraded both significantly.

4.) Ole has kept the deadwood around/we are fleeced for our player sales.
Now this one I get but some people have both these views simultaneously. We know there are some players in the squad that are not up to our standard. However, you simply can not get rid of these players for nothing else you will have a weaker position in the transfer market next time. I've seen some people say we should just accept a couple of million for Lingard and get him to West Ham. If you do that, you won't get £25 million for James later in the window. Ole has absolutely turfed out around 15 first team players in his time at the club who weren't good enough and now we finally look to have a squad of players ready to contribute. Lest you forget that Young, Valencia, Rojo, Darmian, Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Perreira were all around the first team when he arrived and have since been deemed no longer good enough.

Again, there are issues with the team. If you want to point out we often go behind in games and make it hard for ourselves, that is fair enough. If you want to argue that Ole should have strengthened midfield rather than CB that is also fair enough, it's just much more complicated than flat out saying he has ignored it.

No-one wants a forum where people can't complain. We just want reasonable posts and some of you have clearly decided Ole is not good enough and make up any old reason to justify your opinion.
Click to expand...

Good post. Agree on all main points.
 
First off - good OP and agree with what you're saying completely.

He's done well to get rid of some players who were not good enough. That takes time, as the OP has stated and you don't want to sell them for peanuts as that doesn't make sense for many reasons.
Our away record is ridiculously good and you can't do that by not being a good tactician.
And yes, he has addressed the weaknesses in the squad and bought, mostly (eg VDB??), well.

On the other hand...

The one thing I do have issues with is for me is he still doesn't know his starting XI after 3 years and changes players around in positions that aren't their best position just to fit them in the system. And the CM position, which is so critical, hasn't been addressed - that's a massive issue for me.

To elaborate a bit more, looking back at 2007 for example, the squad picked itself for big matches with VDS, Evra, Vidic, Rio, Neville, Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Ronaldo, Rooney and Ruud...

Before this transfer window, we didn't know who Maguire's best partner was - does Rashford play left, right or central - who is our striker - who the heck plays as our 2 central midfielders in big games (eg. drop Pogba back into CM and stifle his talents as a play maker etc). Having 6 transfer windows to fix this sort of stuff is not really good enough.

I guess the question is, is this down to Ole or is it down to lack of £££ / the right player not being available.

Either way, we need to win something this year that's for sure and my weight is all behind Ole - apart from when i see Matic on the team sheet!
 
So criticism is only fine if you agree with the criticism
 
Wumminator said:
1) Ole is inept tactically
The fact Manchester United have just set a record for the longest unbeaten record is evidence of this. You simply can not go that long in the most competitive league unbeaten if you don't have a clue what you are doing. The fact that Ole has the best record against Pep of anyone who has ever played against him (as far as I am aware) should also go to dismissing that fallacy. If you want to argue that tactics can be improved, then I would love to read your posts. I don't really understand a lot about football myself. But the idea that he's completely useless is thrown around here a lot and it doesn't follow.
Click to expand...
He's certainly not inept, but he clearly lacks a top-notch tactical nous that separates great managers from good ones. Ole's best tactical moves (and he really had some) usually happened in big games where he created a reactionary counter-plan that limited the opposition's attack and allowed our attackers space and time on the ball. This plan is very reliant on our attacker's individual brilliance but we have brilliant attackers so it's not like this plan doesn't have any basis.

But Ole is very conservative and unimaginative when it comes to creating proactive tactics and that is an issue, especially in long-term. It's not a coincidence that our away form is drastically better than our form at home.

Wumminator said:
2) Ole is poor at changing the game
The simple fact that we have come from behind to win so often is proof that this is also nonsense. We gained thirty-one points from being behind at different points last year. That is insane. The idea that follows that Ole doesn't react quick enough or is poor at making subs is therefore silly as well. Are there instances where Ole didn't make the exact decision you would have done? Sure. Is Ole clearly understanding the pattern of the games and adapting accordingly. Well obviously.
Click to expand...
You can't dismiss all criticism as silly, especially while looking at the context. And there were many games where we struggled to play like we supposed to, continued to play in a similar fashion and failed to get the result that we required. The "coming from behind" stat is great, sure, but it doesn't necessarily make your manager great. City will never get as many points as us from those positions because they'll rarely find themselves in that position in the first place — does it mean that Ole is better than Pep in terms of adapting his approach mid-game?

Our last game was the worst example of Ole's conservative side — he had tried an experimental set up, it failed miserably but he persisted with it for the entirety of the game and only got bailed by Wolves missing great chances, De Gea & Wan-Bissaka saving our asses and Greenwood converting a low-probability chance.


Dismissing those criticisms completely is just as stupid as overblowing them. Personally, I'd like us to sign a better tactician as Ole's assistant as this side of the game is not something that he excels in.
 
If we go trophyless this season, do you think he will be gone?.
I think it depends on the manner. If we got second in the league, finishing like 5 or 6 points behind the winner, with quarter finalists in the cups, including the Champs League. Under those circumstances i think he will be given another chance.

Its tough though how the board would view it.
 
harms said:
He's certainly not inept, but he clearly lacks a top-notch tactical nous that separates great managers from good ones. Ole's best tactical moves (and he really had some) usually happened in big games where he created a reactionary counter-plan that limited the opposition's attack and allowed our attackers space and time on the ball. This plan is very reliant on our attacker's individual brilliance but we have brilliant attackers so it's not like this plan doesn't have any basis.

But Ole is very conservative and unimaginative when it comes to creating proactive tactics and that is an issue, especially in long-term. It's not a coincidence that our away form is drastically better than our form at home.


You can't dismiss all criticism as silly, especially while looking at the context. And there were many games where we struggled to play like we supposed to, continued to play in a similar fashion and failed to get the result that we required. The "coming from behind" stat is great, sure, but it doesn't necessarily make your manager great. City will never get as many points as us from those positions because they'll rarely find themselves in that position in the first place — does it mean that Ole is better than Pep in terms of adapting his approach mid-game?

Our last game was the worst example of Ole's conservative side — he had tried an experimental set up, it failed miserably but he persisted with it for the entirety of the game and only got bailed by Wolves missing great chances, De Gea & Wan-Bissaka saving our asses and Greenwood converting a low-probability chance.


Dismissing those criticisms completely is just as stupid as overblowing them. Personally, I'd like us to sign a better tactician as Ole's assistant as this side of the game is not something that he excels in.
Click to expand...

Just on the City thing, it's not that they don't do comebacks because they are rarely in that position. They just don't do comebacks. It's one of Pep's flaws which you'd probably live with if you were getting 100 pts a season.

However, they have a terrible record for points gained from losing positions. Once they go behind they tend to lose the game.
 
I think it boils down to the fact he has spent a fortune before this window and still won nothing. If he wasn't a utd legend most of the Ole inners would be shouting for his head to roll. He needs a trophy this season. No more he's building up to something and another 120 mill spend next summer will be key to this etc etc
 
wolvored said:
I think it boils down to the fact he has spent a fortune before this window and still won nothing. If he wasn't a utd legend most of the Ole inners would be shouting for his head to roll. He needs a trophy this season. No more he's building up to something and another 120 mill spend next summer will be key to this etc etc
Click to expand...

What a bullshit argument. It just ignores reality in favor of tunnell-visioned counting of money spent, as if every penny of that went directly into your entitlement account to be freely spent on extravagant displeasure.
 
No patterns of play is my favourite as if we are all tuned in to the high level tactical setup of elite football that we can all totally assess through the tv.
 
Quite a decent threat, however for almost every point good points to counter exists.

Which just makes it a thread for the to defend Ole more and be affirmed within that bubble. Fair play, this is the "positivity" that is needed.
 
wolvored said:
I think it boils down to the fact he has spent a fortune before this window and still won nothing. If he wasn't a utd legend most of the Ole inners would be shouting for his head to roll. He needs a trophy this season. No more he's building up to something and another 120 mill spend next summer will be key to this etc etc
Click to expand...

No they wouldn’t. Practically nobody is shouting for him to be sacked because it would be completely unjustifiable to do so based on the results so far. He has finished third and second, which is around par for the course given what he had at his disposal at the time.

It’s reasonable, perhaps, to believe that he isn’t the man to bring about long term success. It’s reasonable to believe that we absolutely should have won the Europa final and that it was a bad loss.

But it’s disingenuous to suggest that the money we have spent prior to this window (to improve a squad that the previous bloke left in disarray) merited anything more than a swing and a miss at the Europa or FA Cup.

Second in the league was as good as that squad was getting last season.
 
Fox outside the box said:
Posts like this are part of the problem.

Do you even know what 'inept' means? Or are you just using it in a context you've seen and heard it used elsewhere and thinks it enhances the standard of a point because it sounds clever?

There are plenty of games where Ole's tactics have been well worked. I'm not going to break it all down, if you can't remember or whatever then just look at some tactical analysis on YouTube or something. Some of the systems he's implemented against the likes of Tuchel, Klopp, Mourinho and Guardiola as well as multiple formation systems are there, you don't really see it broken down on sky etc because they are actually really poor at analysing games. They are watered down and they tend to just point out the obvious. They rarely break down the off the ball pressing system etc but other people do, so go and check it out.

Every manager gets things wrong. Guardiola is frequently hailed as the top manager in the world right now and he ballsed the CL final up, as well as getting outdone by Solskjaer and other managers, it happens. Fergie got done over many times. Tuchel came unstuck against Solskjaer including with a PSG team with Mbappe and Neymar whilst we had a 17 year old Greenwood, Chong and Brandon Williams.

Off the top of my head, go and check out the game we ended City's 21 or whatever game it was unbeaten run. There are plenty of games out there which will breakdown Ole's tactics.

To say inept just tells me you don't know what words you're using and you're likely repeating a narrative you've read and heard so much you've assumed it's true because you don't know better. Just be honest and say "when I watch football I don't notice all of the tactical nuances". There's nothing wrong with that, most people don't. If you watch any fan analysis post game, it almost never goes into any sort of depth.

Personally I'm guilty of ball watching in a live game. It's why I watch the games back because I can watch for things rather than be focused on what might come next. I also tend to try and watch a few breakdowns outside of sky or wherever because they are generally better at analysis than I am.

I'm not even going to bother with the other points, he obviously hasn't just ignored the midfield problem, he's had certain limitations to work within and there's at leat a degree of sometimes having to pick one thing or another when you want to do both. In 2 and a half years he's achieved a fairly remarkable turn around in terms of the squad. It won't happen over night but we've gone from starting the likes of Lingard, Pereira, Williams, Smalling and Jones to Varane, Bruno, Sancho, Maguire and Cavani. If you expect a turn over of an entire squad in less time then that's your own expectations. I'd imagine we would have wanted one or two more moved on but you can't sell players if you don't have a buyer.

Who is all this dead wood? I imagine you're referring to Mata, Jones and Matic? Maybe Lingard? In a squad of 25 players that's hardly a pressing issue, is clearly a large turn around. In case you've forgotten, the likes of Young, Fellaini, Smalling, Darmian, Rojo, Sanchez, Valencia and Pereira have all been moved on since he took over as well as a host of other players.

I'm not saying he's the best manager in the league but your post is lazy and sounds like someone who gets their opinion more from what they see and hear than from objectively looking at the situation and trying to offer a rounded and fair reflection.
Click to expand...

Good post, this.
 
Geez, so it's a thing now that "Ole has ignored the midfield problem"?


1. Fixing a team that is full of problem areas takes time, and isn't done all at the same time.
2. OGS has signed Bruno Fernandes and Donny vd Beek.
3. Even if midfield remains a problem area, that, with what you'd think would be crushingly self-evident obviousness, does not automatically mean that's because the manager doesn't understand it's an issue.

But of course, if we'd signed Camavinga instead of Varane, people would be complaining that OGS is too incompetent to see the CD needed an upgrade.
 
wolvored said:
I think it boils down to the fact he has spent a fortune before this window and still won nothing. If he wasn't a utd legend most of the Ole inners would be shouting for his head to roll. He needs a trophy this season. No more he's building up to something and another 120 mill spend next summer will be key to this etc etc
Click to expand...

Until recently I think that argument had merit. He inherited a sack of shit, frankly, and there was no way to change that overnight. But I think this is the season when that changes. Few managers ever get a complete team, there's always some problem area. Ole has as complete a squad as most managers can hope for. This is the point where we need to see his team start to peak.
 
largelyworried said:
Until recently I think that argument had merit. He inherited a sack of shit, frankly, and there was no way to change that overnight. But I think this is the season when that changes. Few managers ever get a complete team, there's always some problem area. Ole has as complete a squad as most managers can hope for. This is the point where we need to see his team start to peak.
Click to expand...

He's got a good squad, but then so does Pep, Tuchel and Klopp. That's where we should be, but there's no obvious reason we should be better than the other 3 top teams, if I'm honest. 3rd is probably realistic, but there's no doubt there's a chance of something better than that. Will be exciting. We're competitive now, at least. We do still have more and bigger question marks than the other 3 top clubs I think.
 
Last edited:
Vault Dweller said:
Great thread @Wumminator. Nice to have some positivity for a change. As others have said the forum is becoming unbearable at times whether win, lose or draw.
Click to expand...
Or the place can be unbearable from the blind faith in a manager that has won nothing of importance since he started managing 15 years ago, and nothing in his 3 years management at the biggest club in the world after spending hundreds of millions. Yet, I do not write a whole new loooong thread to whine about the "blind faith". I just move on as people have different opinions.

The OP creator yesterday wrote to a poster "Do you think you know better in football than match going fans?" Such person should not be taken seriously because all of a sudden he think himself is at the level of Klopp just because he sit in the stands in the stadium :lol:.
 
wolvored said:
I think it boils down to the fact he has spent a fortune before this window and still won nothing. If he wasn't a utd legend most of the Ole inners would be shouting for his head to roll. He needs a trophy this season. No more he's building up to something and another 120 mill spend next summer will be key to this etc etc
Click to expand...
He need to deliver a CL or a PL. Not a fecking league cup, we are not Arsenal.
 
Giggsyking said:
Or the place can be unbearable from the blind faith in a manager that has won nothing of importance since he started managing 15 years ago, and nothing in his 3 years management at the biggest club in the world after spending hundreds of millions. Yet, I do not write a whole new loooong thread to whine about the "blind faith". I just move on as people have different opinions.

The OP creator yesterday wrote to a poster "Do you think you know better in football than match going fans?" Such person should not be taken seriously because all of a sudden he think himself is at the level of Klopp just because he sit in the stands in the stadium :lol:.
Click to expand...

Who has ‘blind faith’? Can you pinpoint examples of this to support your view?
 
Giggsyking said:
He need to deliver a CL or a PL. Not a fecking league cup, we are not Arsenal.
Click to expand...

I think you’ll be interesting today.

Do you honestly believe that our current team should be delivering the title and/or the Chanpions League?

After years of not once coming close to contending, never mind winning, we need to be winning one of these trophies this season?

You must have an extremely high opinion of the quality of this squad in comparison to Chelsea, Liverpool and City, or better yet, such a high opinion of the manager that such a feat is not merely possible, but rather absolutely necessary.

I’m interested as to how you will wangle this nonsense, so give it your best.

For what it’s worth, before you wrongly accuse me of having low expectations, I think we should be challenging for the title this season, although I think we’re quite likely to fall a bit short. The team just isn’t there yet. Furthermore, the football should be more consistent, too, and there are no excuses for failing to make it out of the Champions League group stage again.
 
Kag said:
Who has ‘blind faith’? Can you pinpoint examples of this to support your view?
Click to expand...
Putting your bet on a manager with zero experience in winning major trophies is blind faith. I understand that people feel the change he is making, but looking at the whole package of Ole, nothing gives you the impression he is a PL or CL winner. What irritates me that people here try as hard as they can to give him excuses. That should not be the case in a club in the size and prestige of our club. If he somehow win the league (which is what he should be doing taking into account our world class squad) then he will put many doubter back in their place including me. I will want to see a PL trophy or CL by the end of the season.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don’t understand the thread title. Criticism is fine (and encouraged) Who encourages criticism? There’s a whole thread dedicated to doing the exact opposite of that.
Click to expand...
Wumminater definitely encourages cricticsm.








Of our previous manager.
 
Kag said:
I think you’ll be interesting today.

Do you honestly believe that our current team should be delivering the title and/or the Chanpions League?
yes
After years of not once coming close to contending, never mind winning, we need to be winning one of these trophies this season?
No, before Ole we won small trophies with much worse squads and bad managers. Now he has a much better squad than the previous managers, he should win big.

You must have an extremely high opinion of the quality of this squad in comparison to Chelsea, Liverpool and City, or better yet, such a high opinion of the manager that such a feat is not merely possible, but rather absolutely necessary.
Our squad is better than Liverpools, and Chelseas and on par with City.

I’m interested as to how you will wangle this nonsense, so give it your best.
Click to expand...
 
@Giggsyking You are probably the only United supporter I’ve come across that genuinely (delusionally) seems to believe that this current team should win the league or Champions League. Not compete, or even make a fantastic run at it only to be pipped by another very good team, but should. You’re simply chatting bollocks and there’s no other way to frame it.

You’re way, way off, and are going to be in for such a frustrating season, so I’ll leave you to it.

I certainly don’t expect to see you providing (too much) criticism in any of the players threads over the course of the season. They’re all amazing, clearly.
 
Criticism is fine (and encouraged), well thats a bullshit with horseshit on top of it, for starters. Anything that can be percieved as negative wouldnt pass without being called out a drama queen, a moaner, if you dont like it, go support another team line etc. Also last few years we got to the point where even mentioning names of other managers (without any connection with Ole) was seen as some kind of attack on Ole.

I have my issues with certain aspects of Ole as a manager, never said or voted Ole out, but this narrative how Ole in camp is more rational than those marked as Ole out is pure nonsense.

Both of camps are just as bad and obnoxius sky high. One side wanted Poch, other w8s for any slip so they call him trash, one side wanted current manager of Bayern, other side calls him hipster, makes a thread how Ole shits on PSG/Leipzig hipster managers ( we all know how that ended in CL group ) etc.
 
On tactics, I don't think Ole is tactically inept by any means. His record against his supposed superiors in this respect is fantastic - I think Klopp is the only one he doesn't have a winning record against out of Klopp, Tuchel, Guardiola, Jose and Bielsa. Indeed, I think what Ole is very good at is understanding such opponents and setting out to not just nullify them but to hurt them. The issue really is how he reacts when opponents change their style mid-match. I think Ole tends to often be slow to react to such changes - and even then, often doesn't quite get it right. This is most seen if the opposing manager changes formation in matches we've been dominating. Ole can get caught cold at times like these. I don't even think this is the lack of a "Plan B". Ole seems to have Plan B for games we're chasing. Doesn't always work, but in general, he does seem to know what to throw on / how to kick the team's ar*e at HT to get them going. But if the team has been dominating and then the opponent changes tack, we just seem to come unstuck.

The other issue of course concerns our success or lack thereof, against smaller teams that park the bus - but I think we're getting over that, so won't waste time on this.
 
Good thread, agree with all the points, Ole deserves more respect from the ones who are criticizing him
Ole is not a poor tactician, but I don't think he's good enough to win us the PL or the CL, we do some things well like counter attack and some things not so well like build from the back, he's in no way perfect, but he's pretty darn good and we wouldn't be where we are in terms of squad stability and rebuilding if it was not him.

While Ole deserves most of the credit for our away record, it is also important to acknowledge the fact that it's a different gravy doing it with fans back in the stadium. There's no way we're replicating last seasons away record, our home form has to improve drastically. Will Sancho and Ronaldo be enough to do that, only time will tell, but so far Ole has not done a lot of things wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.