Here you go
Bryan Robson and Sir Alex Ferguson Q&A
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
I mean it's a long list - Stam, Schmeichel, Beckham, Ruud, Rooney, Rio, obviously Keane.
Said he only ever had four world class players which, along with being ridiculous and extremely disrespectful, was just narcissistic beyond belief and trying to give the impression that he won all those trophies without squads stacked with world class talent.
Ferguson is the greatest manager ever but he is not a nice person. Probably why he's the greatest ever. He ran the club like a dictator and was ruthless with players. It was effective for sure but some of his comments about guys who done so much to bring him success are nothing short of disgraceful. I watched every game from that 1999 side and to say Schmeichel, Stam, Keane and Beckham weren't world class is just laughable. They were the best players on that team.
People have different defintions of the phrase "world class". Some people think it means "best in their position in the world". If Fergie is using a similar definition, I think it's a fair comment.
He was very specific in his book - had to be a creative attacking player according to his definition.
I can't agree that Robson was the best. I was young when he was around but for me he was our Gerrard, incredible player but a bit too Roy of the Rovers. If he played well the team won, if he didn't, it didn't. Keane on the other hand took the whole team to a level it hadn't been to before, whether he was on the pitch or not. That's a Captain.
It's actually hilarious how ignorant some fans are to what Keane brought to the club. For some reason he's portrayed as this rah rah captain type who did nothing but yell at his teammates.
He was the guy setting the standard in training and demanding that standard be met - You heard Neville speak about how the squad looked up to him and how they all wanted to impress or at least not disappoint him. He'd show up in the best shape with lowest body fat and outrun anyone else. He was the most consistent performer in the team. You could see he took the responsibility seriously - Maybe too seriously in the end. That was the most successful United dressing room of all time and former players as well as Ferguson himself have said that Keane basically ran it. To say anyone in football has been "easily" a better captain than Keane is just insulting.
They won all in front of them with Keane leading the way and the only reason they didn't win 6 straight league's is because Keane done his cruciate.
Haha okay. I'm sure it's just a complete coincidence that he maintained a great relationship with those "world class" players.
He's every bit as bad as Keane when it comes to grudges and agendas. Giggs and Scholes weren't any better than Keane or Beckham in their prime they just sustained a high level for longer. I don't even particularly like Rooney but he was the most talented English player I've seen by some distance and produced in the biggest moments at the highest level. The stuff he said was borderline slanderous and he clearly playing down the role of those who'd fallen out with him.
He's made it quite clear though that he has a different definition of world class to others. I don't see that as a disrespectful comment at all.
Whatever the definition. It's nonsense.
People are either gullible or in denial to think he wasn't deliberate with who he chose.
It would be clear if he just didn't include a particular player. He left off wc players he's never had any problems with which makes it more like a controversial food for thought type of comment than disrespectful.
Not necessarilySir Alex saying Robson was his best captain has to be a intended dig on KeaneClearly still trouble in paradise between them
Roy Keane is my favourite all time United player but Robson is the reason I'm a United fan. I suspect those who are so certain Keane was the better captain probably only saw Keane play for us. Robson was a phenomenal player.
I think perhaps you’re missing my point. Prime Robson was better.
I think that’s the thing. We were lucky to witness both of these immense players in their prime. Sad thing is, we’re old.
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"I always think in football when a team has been here a long time and hasn't won anything, how many challenges can they go again? I don't think they can go many"
I liked this one.
I liked this one.
For Sir Alex to name Robson before Keane, as good a captain as Robson was, is an insult to the latter. Of course Keane was the best captain under him and he knows that only too well. Would have been a perfect oportunity for him to bury the hatchet and give Keane the recognition he deserves. Definately below the belt from SAF and a clear sign he's not ready for any form of reconciliation.
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For there to be reconciliation, Keane would have to reciprocate. He has shown no intention of doing so. SAF is incredibly petty, we all know that. But so is Keane. And in this situation he is in the wrong. He tried to undermine SAF's authority and then went into a fit of rage when SAF put the red line, holding the same grudge ever since. There's a few things SAF has been wrong about in his vindictiveness, but not this. Keane was out of order and he stlll doesn't understand why.
Keane.
Nonsense.
Whatever do you mean? Keane had absolutely no right to slate other player's performances even if he was right. That's down to the manager and the manager only. Once you go down that road, you're undermining your manager and trying to usurp his functions. There's also the fact that he was growing increasingly bold during that time, criticizing SAF and how the club was ran, etc. Keane got too big for his own boots and SAF rightly had to put his foot down. Again, it doesn't matter if he was right or wrong, he was simply a player. An amazing player and an amazing captain, no doubt, but still - a player. As he would say "that's your job". It's not your job to try to manage the club.
I understood your point and Robson is the reason I support Man Utd! Perhaps you did not understand my point. Prime Robson might be better than prime Keane (debatable), but prime Ferguson did not have prime Robson, he had prime Keane, because the winning Ferguson era starts in 1992. So, his best captain was Keane, not Robson.
SAF did not say Robbo was the better player. He said he was the best Captain. He does not have be in his prime to be the best Captain. I can tell you as someone who have seen both these players in their prime. A prime Robson is much the better player. There was nothing he could not do as a player.
The winning era does not have to start to be the best Captain. It is not for us to say so. It is for SAF to decide who was his best Captain.
Of course he did. As he said, they lost 4-2 - What was he to say? They tried hard?
And the whole thing was completely overblown as several players have attested to. Rio, Gary Neville, Rooney and Fletcher have all said they didn't think it was that bad. The stuff that was reportedly said about not earning wages or saying players weren't good enough just wasn't true. A lot of that stuff was put out there by United while they literally destroyed the evidence. Anyone buying that is a fool.
Gary Neville said it - Keane said nothing that he hadn't said 100 times before and if he was 27 the whole thing would have blown over. The rift had been building for a while, he didn't get along with Queiroz and at 34 and winding down Ferguson used it to move him on. The idea that he was growing "increasingly bold" like some general about to attempt a coup is some of the most fantastical shit I've ever heard. Keane was the captain and had ran the dressing room for years. Ferguson was happy to delegate that power until he didn't feel he was worth it. That's what happened.
He shouldn't have said anything. Slating your own teammates is a bad look. If Fergie wanted to give them the hairdryer treatment, that was his right, not Keane's.
That's not what I remember. In that interview posted in this thread with Keane and Gary, Gary says that Keane was way out of order with that. He tries to be polite, but basically admits that SAF was justified in acting that way. There's also transcripts from the interview which are quite damning. And no, I do not believe it had anything to do with his age. SAF kept a lot of loyal players after their expiration day, he slowly phased them out but Keane, especially given his contributions, was one of the few players who got the boot and it had all to do with him trying to undermine SAF's authority. Whether knowingly or not, doesn't matter. Even if it was prime Keane, SAF would have given him the boot. If there is one thing SAF hated, it's players who didn't know their place. Because once players get the idea that they're above the manager, bad things tend to happen.
Ridiculous. Players criticise teammates all the time. Again what was he supposed to say commenting on a 4-1 loss?
That is not what Neville said at all. He said Keane was out of order in what he said during the meeting, not what he said on the tape. Rooney said that both were heated up and both had to be held back - That's what Neville meant when he said it was "horrific". He actually said previously the video itself wasn't that bad. The transcripts are nonsense, how could there be a transcript from anyone but club officials when the destroyed the tape. Keane said himself he never mentioned wages - If he had literally anyone at the club could correct him, but they don't. Rio and Fletcher were apparently those he targeted the most and yet they both defend him. Fletcher has said it wasn't that bad and that a lot of the stuff that was reportedly said was completely misconstrued.
There is zero chance he would have booted a prime Roy Keane. The only player he kicked out on his prime was Staam and that was another personal grudge which he even admits was a mistake. Neville again in that same interview you claim to have watched that Keane had said and done worse before and that this particular incident the breaking point in what had been a strained relationship for a while.
You're talking nonsense.
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I agree. Add that to the fact it was under his captaincy that United finally started to return to its glory days under SAF. Its really not hard to see why Fergie would list him as his best captain.
Keane helped take United from glory to glory under Fergie. Robson helped take United from failure to glory under Fergie
Keane was questioning Carlos Queiroz's ability and was openly questioning SAF's commitment to the club. The interview he did on MUTV was the last straw. SAF and Gill got rid of Keane and it was 100% the correct decision.
Mate, show me a player who has survived criticizing his teammates in an interview? Not in private, not man to man, but in an interview in front of the media. And if that man had survived the ordeal, then the manager was weak. It's as simple as that.
I just rewatched the relevant part. Neville even uses harsher words than I remember. They gloss over the interview, but Neville speaks about the meeting following the interview as "horrific" and Keane throwing insults at Queiroz and even having a go at Sir Alex. That's absolutely unacceptable at any club. Neville even says that Keane the manager would have fired Keane the player right there on the spot. And he is probably right. The interview itself was obviously not the be all end all, there was some serious friction going before that and afterwards, but Keane sealed his fate with his behavior afterwards. He was growing increasingly arrogant over the years due to his role and he never could realize that SAF was the final destination. You can't go above him. The moment he got it into his head that he could usurp a greater role than what was given to him, it was bye bye.
He booted Beckham, Nistelrooy, Kachielskis, Tevez and Ince when they were in their prime. I don't think even Ronaldo would have survived something like this and Ferguson, more or less, thinks of him as his son. SAF had zero patience for players questioning his authority and that was with a good reason. No player, not even prime Messi, is worth the instability of what a weak manager can create.
Roy thinks him and SAF are equal and SAF should treat Roy with the same respect, but he has confused their roles quite a bit. SAF was absolutely in his right to bin him. It doesn't matter how great Roy is, his attitude towards the end was getting unbearable. Roy, as Neville said, would have been even more ruthless with himself if he was the manager and put in the same situation.
I'd wager ever penny I've got that the guys who say Keane was the better captain would much prefer Robson if they were a player. Zero doubt if you're in the same team as them you want Robson as your leader.
Also, are people really trying to correct SAF on who he thinks his best captain was? It's like asking someone what their favourite colour is and disagreeing when they tell you.
Also, are people really trying to correct SAF on who he thinks his best captain was? It's like asking someone what their favourite colour is and disagreeing when they tell you.
I get you. I’d also say Keane also had the benefit of a better team (Prime United?
) around him. But hey, I’d never get into it about Keane because he was immense.