Bringing players through from our academy

[Pogue Mahone]

Most of us seem to agree our squad isn’t fit for purpose. I’m finding it quite depressing how rarely homegrown players are being talked about as possible solutions. But I guess it’s fair enough when hardly any of them have kicked a ball for us. Under Fergie we used cup competitions or easy home fixtures to give youngsters game time and gradually bed them into the squad. That seems to have stopped completely in recent years.

Under Ole we had Greenwood come through and establish himself as a first teamer. Elanga too. Although this is a very recent development. I can’t think of anyone else to get his debut and/or meaningful first team minutes. Goes without saying that feck all happened in terms of youth development under Jose. Or am I forgetting anyone?

At Liverpool, in recent years they’ve had recent debutants like Kelleher, Rhys Williams, Curtis Jones, Neco Williams, Nathaniel Philips and Harvey Elliot all getting a decent amount of game time with the first team.

I haven’t checked but it feels like Spurs and Arsenal have also been giving more opportunities to academy products. It’s even possible that sugar daddy clubs like City and Chelsea have been doing the same. Especially in cup competitions.

Are we really an outlier here? Or am I being too negative? Because if we are that’s an absolute travesty when you consider the traditions of the club and our long history of making the most out of homegrown talent.

 

[Sky1981]

Youth is not some magic beans.

Good academy good youth. The better your academy, the bigger percentage of finding hidden gems. Sure the regens depends on luck, but the better you are the luckier you get.

We have neglected our academy god knows what's happening there with no manager taking charge.

 

[Adisa]

For me it's the failure to take risks. I see no reason why Mata/Lingard should be in any squad ahead of Hannibal for example. Of what benefit is it? This club has serious issues.

 

[Green_Red]

You say the same for a lot of clubs. Look at the talent West Ham used to produce, not so much anymore.

 

[JB7]

Firstly, Harvey Elliot isn't a Liverpool academy player, he was signed from Fulham when he'd already played PL football.

We've had Henderson, McTominay, Rashford, Elanga, Greenwood (not now obviously) in pretty much every matchday squad, Mejbri has just been promoted to being a regular part of the squad too. Williams and Garner are having good seasons out on loan and may be options for us next season.

 

[Rood]

Jose promoted McT to be fair to him - Brandon Williams came through under Ole too and now doing well enough at Norwich

Anyway all our decent youth are on loan at the moment - Garner, Laird, Bernard, Levitt all doing well on loan and could become squad options next season.

Hannibal is part of the squad at the moment but really ready for first team - probably needs a loan too

Pellistri and Amad are also out there, not Academy players though

And BTW I don't agree that our squad isn't fit for purpose but that's another thread

 

[Karlos PFC]

I think what's most important for the academy and basically the whole club is, all our teams to play a specific style of football. So that when there are injuries, players from the academy could bed in nicely.
This is what Pep did at Barca and doing now in City.

This is the most sustainable solution as a whole for the club. Sure you won't get Beckhams and Giggs and Scholes everytime, but there would be players that could do a job for us and won't get drawn into "what do we need in the transfer market" talks.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Firstly, Harvey Elliot isn't a Liverpool academy player, he was signed from Fulham when he'd already played PL football.

We've had Henderson, McTominay, Rashford, Elanga, Greenwood (not now obviously) in pretty much every matchday squad, Mejbri has just been promoted to being a regular part of the squad too. Williams and Garner are having good seasons out on loan and may be options for us next season.

He was 17 when he moved to Liverpool, if you want to split hairs. Signed his first professional contract for them.

My point is about the lack of game time with the first team. Actual competitive minutes. So we can ignore games where they make the squad and don’t play. Ditto players whose only competitive matches have been on loan.

Likewise it’s the last few years I think we’ve been most bad at not giving homegrown kids opportunities. So we can ignore McT and Rashford who must be close to 5 yesrs on from their debuts.

 

[Bilbo]

My view on this never changes. We as a club want to bring through young players. Of course we do. If we aren't doing so then it's probably because they aren't good enough yet.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Our managers are usually busy saving their own skins so for them it's a big risk to chuck a kid in.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I thought we'd see more of Hannibal by now.

 

[-Supreme-]

Our inflated squad depth will need to be trimmed down first, it’s never easy to give kids a chance when they have 2-3 first team players covering for each positions. hopefully we will see a major clear out this summer.

 

[AltiUn]

The best two young players we have at the club who aren't currently on loan are Elanga and Hannibal, surprisingly not seen much of Hannibal yet. The rest are either out on loan or are too young.

I think what's most important for the academy and basically the whole club is, all our teams to play a specific style of football. So that when there are injuries, players from the academy could bed in nicely.
This is what Pep did at Barca and doing now in City.

This is the most sustainable solution as a whole for the club. Sure you won't get Beckhams and Giggs and Scholes everytime, but there would be players that could do a job for us and won't get drawn into "what do we need in the transfer market" talks.

Pep's brought through 1 player in 6 years, no other City academy graduates are anywhere near the first team. Foden and that's pretty much it.

 

[united_99]

I think we have been good enough bringing kids through. However what I don’t understand is how the kids don’t get chances ahead of someone like Mata who plays like 1 minute every few months.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I sometimes need reminding that Mata still plays for us.

 

[Cloud7]

For me it's the failure to take risks. I see no reason why Mata/Lingard should be in any squad ahead of Hannibal for example. Of what benefit is it? This club has serious issues.

I agree with this. There is nothing Juan Mata brings to the squad that one of the academy players doesn't

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Mata & Lingard have already been mentioned here but they are symbolic of the issues we’ve had recently. Neither should be making squads over youngsters yet OgS & latterly Ralf seem to operate under a mindset they need them there as a form of security.

Klopp can blood youngsters as he’s operating from a position of total control, & self-belief. We honestly need to ensure the next manager has total backing to make their own decisions, for all the criticism I throw at Arsenal, Arteta was allowed to dump Ozil & Auba in a way OgS seemingly seemed unable to do.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The best two young players we have at the club who aren't currently on loan are Elanga and Hannibal, surprisingly not seen much of Hannibal yet. The rest are either out on loan or are too young.

Pep's brought through 1 player in 6 years, no other City academy graduates are anywhere near the first team. Foden and that's pretty much it.

Cole Palmer seems to be getting a few opportunities this season. I wonder how many minutes he has compared to Elanga?

 

[Remember the geese]

With so many players potentially leaving in the summer, you'd think there will be plenty of room opening up for academy players. Accompanied by the usual three or four signings of course. As always, the key to success is good recruitment in conjunction with quality academy graduates.

Following Elanga, Hannibal and Shoretire seem to be the closest to being given a real opportunity. Possibly Fernandez too. Then over the next couple of years, there are the likes of Garnacho, Mainoo, Hansen-Aarøen. Possibly McNeill, Mather, Jurado, Vitek etc. This is all without considering the players out on loan.

 

[LoneStar]

I think this is the best time to give a chance to our youth players. Our season is going nowhere, and I don’t care for the top 4 trophy. With all the additions we need going into next season, it’d be of massive help to know if one of these youth players can step up for these positions. Let’s be honest, we are not signing all the players we need next season (2 fullbacks, a striker, a winger and 2 CMs).

I know most of them won’t be ready, but even if we manage to find one or two players who can step up next season at a squad role, it’d be amazing.

 

[Karlos PFC]

The best two young players we have at the club who aren't currently on loan are Elanga and Hannibal, surprisingly not seen much of Hannibal yet. The rest are either out on loan or are too young.

Pep's brought through 1 player in 6 years, no other City academy graduates are anywhere near the first team. Foden and that's pretty much it.

Sure, I'm not arguing that. Pep isn't famous for playing kids from the academy after all. But the point still stands I think. The best practice for embedding yougsters is if the whole club has a specific style of play.
For example it's too difficult for a youngster who plays counter attacking football in the academy to promote him in a team playing on the front foot. He won't have any idea what to do with the ball except sideways passing because the principles of said style would be totally different to what he has been practicing in the academy.

 

[AltiUn]

Cole Palmer seems to be getting a few opportunities this season. I wonder how many minutes he has compared to Elanga?

Elanga's played 600 minutes, Palmer's played 400. Though I'd wager Elanga will be a lot further ahead by the end of the season.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

For me it's the failure to take risks. I see no reason why Mata/Lingard should be in any squad ahead of Hannibal for example. Of what benefit is it? This club has serious issues.

I agree. Hannibal should be getting more chances.

There's plenty of talent in our academy and we've invested a lot into it in recent years.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Kelleher - 16 appearances over 3 seasons
Rhys Williams - 19 apps, 1,350 minutes. Shipped off on loan and now demoted to Liverpool u23s, not getting a single appearance this season.
Curtis Jones - 65 apps, 3,768 mins over 4 seasons.
Neco Williams - 33 apps, 1,831 mins over 3 seasons. Shipped off on loan.
Nathaniel Philips - not from Liverpool academy
Harvey Elliot - not from Liverpool academy

So essentially, one academy player actually integrated.

Since the season Jones debuted in 18/19 we have:

Mason Greenwood - 129 apps, 7,559 minutes before being outed as a scumbag
Brandon Williams - 50 apps, 3,097 mins
Dean Henderson - 29 apps, 2,602 mins
Anthony Elanga - 17 apps, 782 mins and counting
Tahith Chong - 16 apps, 539 minutes
Angel Gomes - 10 apps, 320 mins
James Garner - 7 apps, 316 mins

3 with considerable time and Elanga will be there by end of season so 4.

Now this also doesn't include Rashford, McTominay, Axel and Andreas who made considerable appearances in this time but debuted in the preceding couple of seasons. We've also then had the odd appearance for the likes of Mengi, Laird, Levitt, Shola, Hannibal etc which can increase in the next year.

So yea, it isn't even really close tbh.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I watch plenty of our youth games, and love to see those players make it to the first team squad on merit.

TBH, I don't think there's too many that definitely should have had game time but haven't. Or many that have gone elsewhere and shown they were ready, and of the ability, to play for a top 4 team in the last couple of seasons.

Angel Gomes maybe should have been given more opportunities before he opted to leave. And I agree that we could have had the likes of Hannibal and Diallo on the bench instead of players like Mata and Lingard. But they're mostly bench fillers anyway, so it's not much game time that we're discussing there. And we've already had 3 academy strikers in those roles with Rashford, Greenwood and now Elanga, so we have given our youth a chance to establish themselves in those positions.

CM wise, we've got McTominay and Pogba in there. Since then, the best coming through - the likes of Garner and Levitt - are going to the championship and SPL for regular games (Levitt struggled for games in league one). It's not like they're proving themselves PL class in loans elsewhere.

Defensively, we game Williams game time and he did OK. But with declining returns. So a season loan was a good choice there. Tuanzebe did well, when fit, on loan in the championship. But has struggled for game time in the PL with mid table Villa. Laird wasn't ready for the PL but has had two good loans, in league one and then the championship. So we now face the Williams/Tuanzebe type of decision with him next season as well.

I'd like to see some genuine opportunities given to the likes of Hannibal, Diallo, Laird, Garner in the next season or two. But I only think they're getting up to that time around then. I don't think they were ready for a top 4 PL side in the previous couple of years.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

For me it's the failure to take risks. I see no reason why Mata/Lingard should be in any squad ahead of Hannibal for example. Of what benefit is it? This club has serious issues.

Yeah, I think it comes down to the hoarding of players.

Just putting blockers in front of talented, hungry kids. Not to mention depriving the club of decent transfer fees and a bigger wage budget that could be used on one marquee talent instead of 5 'squad players'.

In an alternate reality:

Amad > Mata
Hannibal > Lingard
Kovar > Henderson (obviously Heaton as no2)
Mengi > Jones (rarely plays anyway)
Garner > VDB

I genuinely don't think we'd lose anything performance-wise, and our young players would benefit from being in and around the squad, getting tastes of first team football.

We'd have also been saving/gaining:

Mata £150k p/w
Lingard £20m and £100k p/w
Henderson £25m and £100k p/w
Jones £100k p/w
VDB £20m and £100k p/w

£65m and £550k a week on players we wouldn't miss in the slightest.

 

[Freak]

These players have all been given some game time in various competitions for us in recent years:

McT
Tuanzebe
Williams
Greenwood
Elanga
Shoretire
Henderson
Mejbri
Garner
Zidan
Savage
Chong
Gomes

I’d say we’ve done well to be honest.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Yeah, I think it comes down to the hoarding of players.

Just putting blockers in front of talented, hungry kids. Not to mention depriving the club of decent transfer fees and a bigger wage budget that could be used on one marquee talent instead of 5 'squad players'.

In an alternate reality:

Amad > Mata
Hannibal > Lingard
Kovar > Henderson (obviously Heaton as no2)
Mengi > Jones (rarely plays anyway)
Garner > VDB

I genuinely don't think we'd lose anything performance-wise, and our young players would benefit from being in and around the squad, getting tastes of first team football.

We'd also be saving/gaining:

Mata £150k p/w
Lingard £20m and £100k p/w
Henderson £25m and £100k p/w
Jones £100k p/w
VDB £20m and £100k p/w

£65m and £550k a week on players we wouldn't miss in the slightest.

I think your list tailed off after the first two.

I can definitely see the argument for cashing in on Lingard, not renewing Mata's deal, and using Hannibal and Amad in the 'sitting on the bench, occasionally getting a few minutes' role.

But Kovar isn't better than Henderson at this stage. And Henderson is also an academy product being used in the squad - he's just crossed into the 'slag off as part of the underachieving first team' group, rather than the shiny, new untried youngster category.

I'd certainly say Tuanzebe is a better 5th choice option than Jones. But Mengi is still raw and needs these loans, and starts, at Championship level, at this stage.

And Garner is performing well in the championship. But he's only in the championship. VDB had impressed with Ajax for years. And in the CL. Is a Dutch international. And has walked straight into the Everton first team in the PL. He was / is a more justified choice than Garner. Just never got the run of games needed to be fully assimilated into the team.

 

[jesperjaap]

Most of us seem to agree our squad isn’t fit for purpose. I’m finding it quite depressing how rarely homegrown players are being talked about as possible solutions. But I guess it’s fair enough when hardly any of them have kicked a ball for us. Under Fergie we used cup competitions or easy home fixtures to give youngsters game time and gradually bed them into the squad. That seems to have stopped completely in recent years.

Under Ole we had Greenwood come through and establish himself as a first teamer. Elanga too. Although this is a very recent development. I can’t think of anyone else to get his debut and/or meaningful first team minutes. Goes without saying that feck all happened in terms of youth development under Jose. Or am I forgetting anyone?

At Liverpool, in recent years they’ve had recent debutants like Kelleher, Rhys Williams, Curtis Jones, Neco Williams, Nathaniel Philips and Harvey Elliot all getting a decent amount of game time with the first team.

I haven’t checked but it feels like Spurs and Arsenal have also been giving more opportunities to academy products. It’s even possible that sugar daddy clubs like City and Chelsea have been doing the same. Especially in cup competitions.

Are we really an outlier here? Or am I being too negative? Because if we are that’s an absolute travesty when you consider the traditions of the club and our long history of making the most out of homegrown talent.

Come on now, we have about twelve youth products within our squad. McTominay, Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood have all been regular starters for a while and Elanga is now getting regular games. Shoetire, Chong, Amad all been given minutes and not looked ready for more yet. The only surprising ones I can think of that didnt/havent were Gomes and currently Hannibal. Wth Hannibal think its been a bit about timing with his injuries, international play and us simply not being in a position to throw a youngster in as we arent comfortably challening nor do we have noting to play for.

 

[jesperjaap]

These players have all been given some game time in various competitions for us in recent years:

McT
Tuanzebe
Williams
Greenwood
Elanga
Shoretire
Henderson
Mejbri
Garner
Zidan
Savage
Chong
Gomes

I’d say we’ve done well to be honest.

I agree and some haent looked ready, some despite some promising performances are maybe just not good enough.

A couple of those may leave and a couple are naybe not far behind Elanga on the fringes and for various reasons are yet to get opportunities. With a possible exodus this summer of playes contracts ending and others wising to leave, I think there may be more opportunities for a couple next season

 

[jesperjaap]

I think your list tailed off after the first two.

I can definitely see the argument for cashing in on Lingard, not renewing Mata's deal, and using Hannibal and Amad in the 'sitting on the bench, occasionally getting a few minutes' role.

But Kovar isn't better than Henderson at this stage. And Henderson is also an academy product being used in the squad - he's just crossed into the 'slag off as part of the underachieving first team' group, rather than the shiny, new untried youngster category.

I'd certainly say Tuanzebe is a better 5th choice option than Jones. But Mengi is still raw and needs these loans, and starts, at Championship level, at this stage.

And Garner is performing well in the championship. But he's only in the championship. VDB had impressed with Ajax for years. And in the CL. Is a Dutch international. And has walked straight into the Everton first team in the PL. He was / is a more justified choice than Garner. Just never got the run of games needed to be fully assimilated into the team.

Though I agree with you, I understand the sentiment the poster was making. Some of the players he mentioned are barely making 5 appearances a season, so promoting a youth player to take the place is of very little detriment and maybe gives them a few more opportuntities they are blocked from, let alone the wages saved on players that simply arent really playing, putting Jones and Tuanzabe out and Mengi in, obviously Tuanzsabe is on loan, but neither of them have barely played a game for a long time, a raw Mengi doesnt make much difference to that, especailly when we need to trim the squad too

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Though I agree with you, I understand the sentiment the poster was making. Some of the players he mentioned are barely making 5 appearances a season, so promoting a youth player to take the place is of very little detriment and maybe gives them a few more opportuntities they are blocked from, let alone the wages saved on players that simply arent really playing, putting Jones and Tuanzabe out and Mengi in, obviously Tuanzsabe is on loan, but neither of them have barely played a game for a long time, a raw Mengi doesnt make much difference to that, especailly when we need to trim the squad too

Yeah. Fair point.

But what's better for Mengi's development at 19? Staying here and fulfilling the 'not playing' role of Jones. Or going out on loan and getting much needed regular game time at a level more fitting of their current ability.

I'd say the latter. The same with Laird, Garner, Amad, etc. If they were currently PL ready, they'd be kept by us or loaned to the PL to gain experience at that level. Like Lingard, VDB, etc. The fact they're not yet PL ready is why they're in the Championship, SPL.

We could use Tuanzebe in that role next season. But he's struggled for game time at Villa this season, so would we be confident picking him? And would it be a waste of his development years if he's kept to be, hopefully, a bench warmer at best?

It's a tricky one. And obviously we've handed out some dumb contract extensions to players. But I've no problem with raw teenagers, of a currently non-PL level, getting regular game time out on loan at a lower level. It's what we do with them after that that gets tricky. So the likes of Henderson, Tuanzebe, Williams, Chong, are at that stage now. And Garner and Laird begin it from next season now they're 20 and have proven themselves at Championship level.

 

[JB7]

He was 17 when he moved to Liverpool, if you want to split hairs. Signed his first professional contract for them.

My point is about the lack of game time with the first team. Actual competitive minutes. So we can ignore games where they make the squad and don’t play. Ditto players whose only competitive matches have been on loan.

Likewise it’s the last few years I think we’ve been most bad at not giving homegrown kids opportunities. So we can ignore McT and Rashford who must be close to 5 yesrs on from their debuts.

Well it's not splitting hairs as like I said, he was literally a Premier League footballer when he signed for them. Therefore he is clearly not an academy product.

Happy to get into the other names on your list if you prefer? Phillips and Rhys Williams got gametime last season due to their defensive injury crisis, this season once players got back fit neither has seen any minutes and both have spent time away from the club on loan. Neco Williams, 7 minutes of Premier League football all season and was loaned out in January. Kelleher is the back-up goalkeeper, which is all he'll ever be as he's not displacing Allison, Henderson is incredibly unlucky not to have had more gametime than him this season. Which leaves Curtis Jones, decent player by all means.

 

[Rozay]

Number of factors. Obvious one is every single game, at any level, always being on a knife-edge. Hannibal was on the bench for two games recently, but we couldn’t engineer a situation where we would be happy to bring him on. The first of which was at home to a Championship side. Yet even then, we were too shit to be in a comfortable situation.

And then Greenwood was just so much better than the rest, which shows where the bar was set. The main reasons are us not being good enough and a lot of the youth players not really being good enough either. Williams got through, fortunately in my opinion as he was never a standout talent, and McTominay falls into the same category for me. Tuanzebe was at least of the level that would warrant first team action when he was in the youth team.

And in Mourinho’s defence, he played McTominay and Tuanzebe.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Our main problem is we seemingly reward our youth products with nice contracts for just hanging in there, and then we create a problem for ourselves when they don’t make the grade and can’t sell them.

 

[tjb]

Our main problem is we seemingly reward our youth products with nice contracts for just hanging in there, and then we create a problem for ourselves when they don’t make the grade and can’t sell them.

I'd argue we give youth too much of a chance at United. With our most recent young players, Martial and Amad we barely had any evidence that they could produce in a functioning first team. The amount of games they played before arriving to United was minimal, in addition Rashford, Welbeck, Greenwood, Cleverley, Mctominay and Smalling, we have had a situation where we have little evidence sustained style and performers from major contributors throughout the post Fergie years. Whereas a team like Liverpool signed Mane for his performances at southampton, Salah for his performances at Roma, Fabinho for his time at Monaco, Van Dijk for his time, Allison for his time at Roma, with TAA the only true player they brought through in the first team with limited data. They know exactly what to expect from those players, which is why they signed them. The same thing goes for City. Sterling was a star at Liverpool, KDB at Wolfsburg, Gundogan at Dortmund, Ruben Dias at Benfica, Bernardo Silva at Monaco and Rodri at Atleti. Foden had to prove that he was better than some of these players to get games.

Even in the past. Giggs had to compete with Kanchelskis and Lee Sharpe. He then shined and was regularly played. Scholes took years to earn a proper starting position at United ( rotating all over the park) before stamping his place in the first xi in 97-98. When we signed Rooney, he had already established himself at Everton. Even Ronaldo needed to rotate and eventually stamp himself into the side. The issue we had from 2016 in attack is that we built our entire attack on the potential improvement of Martial and Rashford. We had no evidence that their games would get to the next level and in truth despite scoring numbers, they had never shown consistency throughout games talk less of seasons. Whereas other teams were focused on building competition in those areas and forcing the cream to get to the top, we were fine with handing permanent starting positions and big contracts to some of these players. In defence, we spent years hoping for Jones and Smalling to get it right, so didn't sign defenders. In midfield we signed noone for years, got Pogba and let his contract situation hamper us for years. We allowed players like Mctominay take up starting positions without even having the ability to pass the ball properly, but simply loving his passion and tenacity. We let Rashford and Martial determine our attacking future. We had no creativity from either flank till Sancho came in this summer all based on the premise that Rashford, Martial or later Greenwood would have the ability to be superstars, without them ever being superstars or even there being balance to it. Last season, we literally had three forwards with no creative threat, with a sole playmaker in Bruno Fernandes, in charge of doing anything and everything for the team.

Where City and Pool have players and buy competition, we sit back and allow inconsistent players have time to develop. Forgetting that both Rooney and Ronaldo performed consistently before we gave them the keys to the kingdom.

 

[United in sin]

Most of us seem to agree our squad isn’t fit for purpose. I’m finding it quite depressing how rarely homegrown players are being talked about as possible solutions. But I guess it’s fair enough when hardly any of them have kicked a ball for us. Under Fergie we used cup competitions or easy home fixtures to give youngsters game time and gradually bed them into the squad. That seems to have stopped completely in recent years.

Under Ole we had Greenwood come through and establish himself as a first teamer. Elanga too. Although this is a very recent development. I can’t think of anyone else to get his debut and/or meaningful first team minutes. Goes without saying that feck all happened in terms of youth development under Jose. Or am I forgetting anyone?

At Liverpool, in recent years they’ve had recent debutants like Kelleher, Rhys Williams, Curtis Jones, Neco Williams, Nathaniel Philips and Harvey Elliot all getting a decent amount of game time with the first team.

I haven’t checked but it feels like Spurs and Arsenal have also been giving more opportunities to academy products. It’s even possible that sugar daddy clubs like City and Chelsea have been doing the same. Especially in cup competitions.

Are we really an outlier here? Or am I being too negative? Because if we are that’s an absolute travesty when you consider the traditions of the club and our long history of making the most out of homegrown talent.

Greenwood and McTominay were both promoted to the first tea during Mourinho's time here. Greenwood trained with the first team under Mourinho in his final season but Solskjaer handed him his debut. Mourinho also promoted and gave first team debuts to Tuanzebe, Josh Harrop (who scored on his debut and played 90 minutes against Crystal Palace in a 2-0 win in the league), Angel Gomes and Joel Pereira

 

[Abraxas]

There have been some very conservative squad selections for cup games and favourable league games where it is rather frustrating to see the old boys like Mata on the bench. You would have thought young talents should be getting some opportunities.

Ultimately it comes down to the manager thinking they're good enough, and also how good the production line is in actuality. If they're not up to it then you have to look further back and understand why we're not scouting better European talents and developing local lads through the system. It's hard to tell whether it is a question of quality or conservatism that is the main problem.

 

[Tyrion]

Youth is not some magic beans.

Good academy good youth. The better your academy, the bigger percentage of finding hidden gems. Sure the regens depends on luck, but the better you are the luckier you get.

We have neglected our academy god knows what's happening there with no manager taking charge.

Honestly I think the academy is the only part of the club that hasn't gone to trash since SAF. Very few clubs actually get many first team players from their academy. With Rashford, McTominay, Greenwood, Elanga and (sorta) Pogba and Henderson, we've more than most.

 

[Bondi77]

For me it's the failure to take risks. I see no reason why Mata/Lingard should be in any squad ahead of Hannibal for example. Of what benefit is it? This club has serious issues.

Do you think that Hannibal is a better player than Jesse at this point in time considering Ronnie is really the only striker we have