Are we going to be put back in our place next season?

G-MUFC said:
I wouldn't call Utd finishing 4th next season as catastrophic. I actually think we're the 4th best team in the league, so it's about right if we finish there.

I really hope fans don't get too carried away with finishing 2nd this season. Liverpool had big injuries and Chelsea had an inept manager for half of the season. Liverpool and Chelsea are clearly better than us - just take a look at the major trophies they have won in the last three seasons!

Man Utd are a club that should be competing to win the Premier League and Champions League. I don't hate Ole, I just don't believe that Ole and his coaching set up are good enough to win either competition. Especially when the likes of Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel are around.
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Who do you suggest the club hires that are good enough?
 
UnitedSofa said:
What I don’t understand is the utter bile and tripe that gets thrown Ole’s way each time we lose. Also the fact we lose is never because of the players, the fact we lost is always down to Ole. But when we win it’s because of an “individuals talent” and not because of Ole.

This forum LOVES being upset and is never happy.

I dread coming on if Ole ever got sacked (& I hope he doesn’t because he has done so much right for the club since coming in as a manager, the progress is there to see but this forum is too impatient to see it) because this place would be a warzone, you thought the EL loss was bad, sheesh. There for one would be parties in the “street” kinda vibes in here. From so called “fans” as well. Shame.
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That's management 101. Technically Ole is not even responsible for tactics as he can hire a tactician. Thats the whole point of a manager.
 
shamans said:
That's management 101. Technically Ole is not even responsible for tactics as he can hire a tactician. Thats the whole point of a manager.
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So every single loss is because of the manager (at any club) and every single win is because of the players?

Right.

In that case sack everyone and let the players manage themselves.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Who do you suggest the club hires that are good enough?
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There's plenty of people at Man Utd getting paid a hell of a lot of money that should be able to make these decisions. They'd do well in making sure they don't hire managers that get clubs like Cardiff City relegated!
 
G-MUFC said:
There's plenty of people at Man Utd getting paid a hell of a lot of money that should be able to make these decisions. They'd do well in making sure they don't hire managers that get clubs like Cardiff City relegated!
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I didn't say you decide on who the recruitment team decide on, I just asked your opinion on which manager could take us to a different level?

Cardiff would have been relegated with most managers, Klopp got relegated with Mainz by the way.

Ole was hired because he was given the caretaker role but impressed the owners with that stint. They hired him because he proved to be able to do a decent job and knows what the club is all about. He has also been proving the nay sayers wrong since day 1.

If he is not very good then how come he guided the club to 3rd place then 2nd place in the league, getting to 3 semi finals and a final? Managers that are not very good don't do that.

When Pep has his grips on a squad, which manager (that isn't Klopp or prime Mourinho with Ronaldo and co), has managed to beat Pep to a league title? You could hire anyone you want and it would be very difficult to beat Pep to a league title, so Ole finishing 2nd is actually a very admirable feat.
 
There's obviously a risk of our league finish next year being lower than this years, doesn't necessarily mean that the campaign will have been worse. Looking back on next season a year from now, I think we could have improved a lot even if we slip down one or two spots in the table.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Nobody can assure if we will be 2nd or 4th or anything, but if we look at odds at the moment we are behind City, Liverpool and Chelsea. That's a hard truth.

We'll see how the summer goes with transfers but I don't think we're fancied to repeat second place and a big part of that is that those 3 teams have superior managers.
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Whether its second place, third place or fourth is irrelevant really - got to be in one of those slots for obvious reasons - but its the number of points behind first that really matters. Next season, Manchester United have to compete right to the wire, I think they should make the league their no. 1 prority above eveything else and hope Man City/Chelsea/Liverpool falter by aiming for trebles/quadruples.

I read a ting in one of the newspapers recently (sorry can't find it tonight) it was an analysis of all the campaigns since Sir Alex finished, comparing the points gap between the eventual winners and Man Utd. It basically showed that this manager, that manager - this system or that system, it didn't really change anything and for 7/8 years Utd. have been consistent: consistently off the pace - possibly due to the ownership issue.
 
JebelSherif said:
Whether its second place, third place or fourth is irrelevant really - got to be in one of those slots for obvious reasons - but its the number of points behind first that really matters. Next season, Manchester United have to compete right to the wire, I think they should make the league their no. 1 prority above eveything else and hope Man City/Chelsea/Liverpool falter by aiming for trebles/quadruples.

I read a ting in one of the newspapers recently (sorry can't find it tonight) it was an analysis of all the campaigns since Sir Alex finished, comparing the points gap between the eventual winners and Man Utd. It basically showed that this manager, that manager - this system or that system, it didn't really change anything and for 7/8 years Utd. have been consistent: consistently off the pace - possibly due to the ownership issue.
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I agree with you, I would rather be 4th with an 5 point difference from 1st rather than 2nd and being 12 points away. At the end of the day is about how close/far are you from the title being second while its an indicator doesnt really shows how far are we.

Liverpool were 1 point away in the 18/19 season, we are 12 points away at the moment. Both second places but hardly the same situation.
 
SAFMUTD said:
I agree with you, I would rather be 4th with an 5 point difference from 1st rather than 2nd and being 12 points away. At the end of the day is about how close/far are you from the title being second while its an indicator doesnt really shows how far are we.

Liverpool were 1 point away in the 18/19 season, we are 12 points away at the moment. Both second places but hardly the same situation.
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Last year when Liverpool won the PL, City were also at 2nd with a big distance (18 points). Yet City still won the latest PL. So I don't think that's clearly a pattern. Our distance to City in the last season was 12 points, which was even less than the distance from Liverpool to City 1 season before.
 
shamans said:
That's management 101. Technically Ole is not even responsible for tactics as he can hire a tactician. Thats the whole point of a manager.
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Ole is responsible for all of it, he can delegate whatever he wants but he still has the final say he may hire a tactician for instance but he won't just say to him 'do what you what want mate' they will come up with the tactics between them and if its not working out than Ole should he so please can get rid of the tactician and hire a different one.

Thats management 101 your responsible for it even if you delegate it to someone, if it goes well they get the praise if it doesn't you get the stick.

If you have someone not hitting your set standards than you have to make decisions based on lots of different things about weather you can help them to come up to the required standard, and if not than sometimes you have to replace them with someone who has a better skill set and hope that they can hit your standard.

Thats where we are with Ole there's a couple of players who are not the required standard, Ole wants to replace them with players with a better skillset to improve the overall performance of his department. But some people are suggesting that a different manager will get more out of the players (even though there is no evidence of these players having a higher standard and they were actually worse for previous managers).
 
It’ll obviously depend on incomings but I think Tuchel has turned Chelsea into a better side than us at present, and Liverpool’s late season form + VVD makes Liverpool better also, you’d be rather naive to think otherwise.

So 3 better managers with very good squads will be hard to overcome, but players ultimately make the biggest difference, so get Sancho and another couple of crackers and see where we end up. If after a good Summer we’re “back in our place” come late November, do a Chelsea, give a cracking squad to a new guy.

If we drop 2 places to 4th I care not, as long as we’re within serious touching distance of 1st-3rd and in the title race until the last month.
 
This just feels like another let’s bash Ole post. Yes we should have won last week but unlike City we don’t have two first 11’s. Who could we bring on to change the game?
let’s take a step back, where were we under world class managers Van Gaal and Mourinho, both proven winners?
Apart from one league and one European cup you could definitely argue that the rest of Klopps seasons at Liverpool would have the majority on here demanding he is sacked. We progressed from 3rd to 2nd. Chelsea and City invested very heavily last season, they both arguably had better squads than us already. So if City get Kane and Chelsea get a top centre back and striker, is it Oles fault if we don’t match their ambition in the market?
Of course it’ll be tight next season, Chelsea will challenge, so will City and possibly pool, we need to be in there but the signs are good.
 
This preseason will tell us everything we need to know about the ambitions of Manchester United going forward.
 
JebelSherif said:
Whether its second place, third place or fourth is irrelevant really - got to be in one of those slots for obvious reasons - but its the number of points behind first that really matters. Next season, Manchester United have to compete right to the wire, I think they should make the league their no. 1 prority above eveything else and hope Man City/Chelsea/Liverpool falter by aiming for trebles/quadruples.

I read a ting in one of the newspapers recently (sorry can't find it tonight) it was an analysis of all the campaigns since Sir Alex finished, comparing the points gap between the eventual winners and Man Utd. It basically showed that this manager, that manager - this system or that system, it didn't really change anything and for 7/8 years Utd. have been consistent: consistently off the pace - possibly due to the ownership issue.
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This league is not comparable to the times of Sir Alex anymore.

So, you can not really say you have to win the title next year, because in my opinion we have two teams - City and Pool - that are capable of collecting 90 points or more next season. Now you can aim for that, too, but it's not something you can control entirely.

I find that United has had a very good season. You became a team that was very difficult to play against. Ole has no problems playing against Pep's teams. Were there issues? Certainly, but if some of the players like AWB, Shaw, Greenwood, Lindelof, Henderson improve again, and you get 1-2 good signings you will compete again for the top.
 
I don't think it will be much different.

City will go wild in the transfer market after the CL loss. They will win the league with ease. The only risk there is Pep losing his mind with frustration and sabotaging himself.
Liverpool will have Van Dijk back but who knows if he will be the same player, and the rest of their stars are one year older or one step closer to Madrid.

Chelsea are the one who could leapfrog us. It depends how the summer goes for them and us.
 
This exact same discussion happened last season. The team ran out of steam at the end of the season after playing the exact same lineup in every game for the run in.

Doom and gloom from everyone. Ole can't rotate. United can't possibly finish higher than 3rd, he can't get past a semi final, Chelsea have strengthened, City and Liverpool are too far ahead. United will be lucky to get 4th.

Despite a disastrous transfer window (again), the most ridiculous fixture list of any club ever and their best striker from last season having an absolute nightmare season, they improved on the previous season and finished comfortably above both Liverpool and Chelsea. If not for the protests it would have been a very different end to the season.

In order to compete for the title United need first team quality additions at centre back, central midfield and at least one forward.

What will happen:
The club will galactically mess it up again, Ole will outperform where the team should realistically finish and will get slated for not mounting a title challenge because he's not coaching McTominay to be Roy Keane, Fred to be Paul Scholes or Wan Bissaka to be the second coming of Cafu.
 
wise_old_man said:
Last year when Liverpool won the PL, City were also at 2nd with a big distance (18 points). Yet City still won the latest PL. So I don't think that's clearly a pattern. Our distance to City in the last season was 12 points, which was even less than the distance from Liverpool to City 1 season before.
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Difference is every knew City had an off year, pretty much like Liverpool this year. Do you believe we are on our way to reach high 80s low 90s points? Because that's what we'll need to win the league.
 
We will be fine. Top 4 at a minimum while continuing to build. Sign 2 starters and we are good for a more robust challenge. With the glazers we won’t be getting all the players we need in any one summer so we should always be ready to keep adding players with the right profile as they come on the market and it’ll all come together eventually. We’ve also got some proper class youth to develop and hopefully get plenty of minutes into. The squad should hold up better in attacking areas and midfield with Hannibal and amad emerging, martial coming back in and VDB a year further along. I was worried last year but I think even if we only get Sancho and one other we’ll still be fine if everyone manages to stays fit. Big if.
 
I'm not worried about next season, Pogba, Cavani and Fernandez will attempt to drive the team to 1st place (whether they can do it is another story)

It's the following season I'm worried about. Once Pogba and Cavani leave.

I can't see the Glazer's spending big two years in a row, and United could slip out of the top 4 again after their departures.
 
What's interesting is that we have been gunning for top 4 this season, last season and the season before.
Basically.....we are standing still, though we did go a step further in the EL (unfortunately, that is our level).
Many fans seem to be quite happy about this, claiming that this is progress and we are moving in the right direction.
4 years ago, we won 2 trophies. The following season we got 2nd place.
This season we got 2nd. Basically, we have taken a step back since Ole arrived and are now treading water.

Ole should not be fired (you can't fire a manager after he got 2nd), but under him, we won't be winning any major trophy. We might win something like the League Cup....but nothing more. How do I know this? Ole has finished 3 seasons with us and won nothing.
 
We’ve probably got the third best first team and fourth strongest squad, so we over-performed this season (combined with Liverpool struggling). My view is that we need three starting players plus two high quality bench options to really make progress next season and genuinely consider us title contenders.

I highly doubt we will get anywhere near that level of investment, so we’ll be reliant on Ole and the team managing to perform at their best, and avoid key injuries, if we are to repeat this season.
 
My challenge is that we are a badly run club and I won't be surprised to see another bad transfer window.

I think Ole deserves credit for what he has achieved this year but only time will tell if he has what it takes to win a major competition.

I think we will finish in top 4 unless we have a disaster of a transfer window.

Man city: Looks like they are primed for a good window based on chairman's interview, for me winners.
Liverpool: I am less worried about pool despite them having Van D back who I doubt will ever be the same. Their front 3 a year older, will lose couple of key players for AFN and I don't think they are in a luxury position to spend big.
Chelsea:: I think Tuchel honeymoon period will end, teams will figure out how to play them (in all seriousness, they haven't been effective in PL that much).
TOT: If they can hold Kane and SOn and add Conte, I think they will have a real shot at top 4.
LEI: Enough said

Ideally this is what we need to do:

Get rid of:

GK (net Spend $0): In my view, we sell both De Gea and Henderson for a combined 50-60m. And get another great goal keeper, I don't think both of them will start for another top top club. We got a back up in Tom so that should be a very good outcome for us.

Defense: (net spend 15-20m) Varane (35m), Trippier, we do need a competition for Bissaka ($15m), Sell Dalot (15m), Baily, after that bicycle kick, no change he should be any where near the team (10-15m). Keep Lindelof unless he wants go to. If we sell him for (25-35m), buy a 28 years old well established defender who won't cost a fortune .. like Johny Evans (I know he is 33). Just charity give away Phil Jones, please for the sake of god.

Midfield and Attack: (net spend $close to $100m)VDB + (45-50m) for Sancho assuming Dortmund wants it. Else 75m direct and we try to sell VDB. Buy Grealish 75m, Kind another Kante 60-70m (Sell Martial (35-40m) + AP (5-10m) + VDB (30m, he is just not suited for us, we have seen with Kagwa, Mkhitaryan, we need to learn) + Pogba ($50m-60m, I really hope someone can pay).

Total net spend around 120m and we will end up in a much much better position and a stronger team. I really don't want the distraction of Pogba and also players like Martial who don't put +100% effort every second on the pitch...

But of course we need someone who can execute it.....
 
Gurtej said:
My challenge is that we are a badly run club and I won't be surprised to see another bad transfer window.

I think Ole deserves credit for what he has achieved this year but only time will tell if he has what it takes to win a major competition.

I think we will finish in top 4 unless we have a disaster of a transfer window.

Man city: Looks like they are primed for a good window based on chairman's interview, for me winners.
Liverpool: I am less worried about pool despite them having Van D back who I doubt will ever be the same. Their front 3 a year older, will lose couple of key players for AFN and I don't think they are in a luxury position to spend big.
Chelsea:: I think Tuchel honeymoon period will end, teams will figure out how to play them (in all seriousness, they haven't been effective in PL that much).
TOT: If they can hold Kane and SOn and add Conte, I think they will have a real shot at top 4.
LEI: Enough said

Ideally this is what we need to do:

Get rid of:

GK (net Spend $0): In my view, we sell both De Gea and Henderson for a combined 50-60m. And get another great goal keeper, I don't think both of them will start for another top top club. We got a back up in Tom so that should be a very good outcome for us.

Defense: (net spend 15-20m) Varane (35m), Trippier, we do need a competition for Bissaka ($15m), Sell Dalot (15m), Baily, after that bicycle kick, no change he should be any where near the team (10-15m). Keep Lindelof unless he wants go to. If we sell him for (25-35m), buy a 28 years old well established defender who won't cost a fortune .. like Johny Evans (I know he is 33). Just charity give away Phil Jones, please for the sake of god.

Midfield and Attack: (net spend $close to $100m)VDB + (45-50m) for Sancho assuming Dortmund wants it. Else 75m direct and we try to sell VDB. Buy Grealish 75m, Kind another Kante 60-70m (Sell Martial (35-40m) + AP (5-10m) + VDB (30m, he is just not suited for us, we have seen with Kagwa, Mkhitaryan, we need to learn) + Pogba ($50m-60m, I really hope someone can pay).

Total net spend around 120m and we will end up in a much much better position and a stronger team. I really don't want the distraction of Pogba and also players like Martial who don't put +100% effort every second on the pitch...

But of course we need someone who can execute it.....
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What dollars ar you using, US? The totals you have put are so unrealistic.
In £ sterling Dortmund want £84 million for Sancho, Villa quoted £80 mill last season for Grealish and Chelsea wont off load Kante anyroad.
 
G-MUFC said:
I wouldn't call Utd finishing 4th next season as catastrophic. I actually think we're the 4th best team in the league, so it's about right if we finish there.

I really hope fans don't get too carried away with finishing 2nd this season. Liverpool had big injuries and Chelsea had an inept manager for half of the season. Liverpool and Chelsea are clearly better than us - just take a look at the major trophies they have won in the last three seasons!

Man Utd are a club that should be competing to win the Premier League and Champions League. I don't hate Ole, I just don't believe that Ole and his coaching set up are good enough to win either competition. Especially when the likes of Guardiola, Klopp and Tuchel are around.
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And Conte now.
 
sunama said:
This season we got 2nd. Basically, we have taken a step back since Ole arrived and are now treading water.
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We have finished 2nd for the second time since Sir Alex retired yet some how we are treading water? Fair there is no progress under Ole in terms of trophies I said as much. Just like you I don't think he will win us a major trophy. That being said whether you see it or not we have progressed as a team.
 
This season we went into it as top 4 level - we did well to get 2nd and a cup final it was a marginal overachievement. Half of my mates had us finishing behind Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea etc.... We progressed well.

As for next season:
  • Invest well* = a crack at a title race and a cup..
  • Poor/Lack of Investment** = We'll fight for top 4.
* Urgently plug the CB, DM, RW positions with readily made, world class talent. , and we'll be fighting for top 4.
** Bringing a free GK and one or two squad players (Telles, VDB)
 
"Everyone will improve their squad - We will compete for top 4"

I am absolutely, unequivocally impressed by the Caf's astute ability to predict the future.

We will of course, not improve the squad. Or continue to improve. We will in fact get worse. Because yes.

I admire the optimism, determination, and sheer motivation that one gets from reading these reasonable and well rounded opinions.

Where do I sign the petition to give everyone a front row ticket at the season opener at Old Trafford so you can boo the team immediately upon entering the field?
 
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I think we've been put back in our place.
 
Skills said:
I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I think we've been put back in our place.
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It's only starting. We are the joke of the league. Everybody feels like they can beat us. Humilition is unbearable
 
I honestly thought it would take much longer than this for us to capitulate. With the squad we now have it's actually a remarkable feat to have such a diabolical opening to the season in such an easy run of fixtures.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I honestly thought it would take much longer than this for us to capitulate. With the squad we now have it's actually a remarkable feat to have such a diabolical opening to the season in such an easy run of fixtures.
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It is a squad with a number of top rated players. But in all honesty yesterday, we missed the industry of Fred in midfield.
Matic was ok, but Pogba was caught in possession too often.
We don't have enough players who will put in sufficient intensity and do all the difficult things.
When he is not in the game, Ronaldo can be a luxury.

Ole has to find a way to bring the players into a hard working cohesive unit.
Because we are miles away from that.
 
Skills said:
Back in our place. Getting spanked by Liverpool
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Everything is alright. We just need to spend another half a billion and another few years of Ole-McKenna-Carrico fantastic coaching. Who knows, if this happens, we might actually not look like a total joke.
 
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