Are we going to be put back in our place next season?

[Rozay]

If theres one thing I take from Ole and Uniteds transfers so far is that there IS a plan.

There seems to be more emphasis on the collectivism rather than the individual, and on character rather than pure stats. This can only be a good thing moving forward as we are less likely to see the 'Galaticos' style that we got accustomed to under Woodward.

I really doubt we are looking at Kane as a realistic aquisition, I would be surprised if we don't have a conversation with Kane about a move, but the plan seems to be to look for the multiple signings we truly need rather than an indivdual signing.

We know our strength in depth is lacking, hopefully the likes of Amad, Chong (maybe) and a few others can make the next step into being able deputies to enable us to concentrate on three solid signings in the positions we need.

As for CIty's signings, it has taken Pep several defensive signings to get to where they are now, they may have an idea of the players they need but they have failed in this appraoch multiple times, (I hvae lost count of the amount of defenders Pep has purchased!)

I don’t believe Ole could possibly have thought out how Bruno and VDB would fit alongside Pogba and the others he has when signing them. He’s been playing Pogba on the left wing, he’s left him out of some big games although he clearly rates him highly. If you asked him to name his strongest XI right now, it will likely be an XI that doesn’t best compliment each other, as it will likely have a double pivot with PP behind Bruno, and a right side of AWB and Greenwood.

 

[Wilt]

Next season, bookies have Utd behind City, Pool and Chelsea. Think we’ll be in a battle for 4th.

Next transfer window will be a big factor.

 

[pocco]

Klopp didn't make a signing in his first transfer window, however then proceeded to make nearly 10 in the two after that, of which you could easily say 7 or 8 of them signings were first team bound, then made 5 first team aquisitions in the two after that, which equates to near enough a new first team!

You talk as if City don't have class options in every position to cover injuries!

Coaching is obvioulsy important, but of equal importance is the quality of squad you have. City's squad is most definitely better than ours.

Liverpool were 10th in the league when Klopp took over in October. Names included in his first lineup...Mignolet, Sakho, Clyne, Skrtel, Moreno, Milner at LW, Origi up front. Adam Bogdan, Kolo Toure, Jerome Sinclair, Joao Carlos Texiera and Connor Randall on the bench. Not even comparable. Such a crap comparison if you did any homework. Regardless, he took them to a Europa League final (beating us, Dortmund and Villarreal) and a League Cop final vs City, which they lost on pens. In his first season, whilst completely changing their football which was evident to see in the early stages. Solid start to his rebuild.

Since then they have been to the CL final, CL Winners, PL winners etc. Klopp was always very clearly more than a manager that relied solely on player, he implemented his changes early on. The team that took him to the CL final vs Real Madrid saw the likes of Karius in goals, Lovren at CB, Milner and Henderson in midfield, Mignolet, Clyne, Klavan Moreno & Solanke on the bench.

I think Klopp spent about £400m to take Liverpool from 10th to CL and PL winners, only spending about £8m in the 2 windows before they won the PL. How much has Ole spent on a considerably stronger squad to start with? £300m roughly. And we apparently need Kane, Sancho, Rice and Verane...it's got beyond a joke now with the excuses. Total chequebook manager.

Do you think Ole could have done what Klopp did at Liverpool? Absolutely no chance.

 

[Acquire Me]

I'm intrigued, what is a 'solid' transfer window? Because I see no way we win it. 12 points behind City who were below par and also navigating to a CL final.

Well, Ole need to strengthen his squad in more than one position. The big question is; will the Glazers do that? If they do, I can see us making a huge statement next season. If not, we will be better than this season, but not better than City.

 

[Champ]

I don’t believe Ole could possibly have thought out how Bruno and VDB would fit alongside Pogba and the others he has when signing them. He’s been playing Pogba on the left wing, he’s left him out of some big games although he clearly rates him highly. If you asked him to name his strongest XI right now, it will likely be an XI that doesn’t best compliment each other, as it will likely have a double pivot with PP behind Bruno, and a right side of AWB and Greenwood.

I think both signings were made with Pogbas departure in mind, which at the time of both arrivals was looking like it would happen sooner rather than later,

Obviously Pogba hasn't left and so you are left with two players who are too good to be left out of the starting 11.

 

[pocco]

Well, Ole need to strengthen his squad in more than one position. The big question is; will the Glazers do that? If they do, I can see us making a huge statement next season. If not, we will be better than this season, but not better than City.

He'll get 2 players minimum. Let's see if he can do his homework better compared to VDB, James and arguably Maguire and AWB. Because he will be expected to deliver big things next season.

 

[Sandikan]

We'll be stronger next season, no doubt about it. We've had the most hectic schedule of any club in England with just one midweek off all season. This obviously leads to tiredness, but we've had almost no time on the training pitch either, which I feel has hurt our rotation and general performances a bit because we haven't been able to work on different tactics.

We do need to strengthen in the summer though, we need at least one of a CB and a DM, preferably both and we need an attacker at an absolute minimum. I'm quite optimistic about our chances next season, we have a good team who I think are ready to push on on to bigger things.

We're in a very similar position to last summer.
Seriously improve the team, that's team, not squad like Veb de Beek apparently did, or fall short.

 

[cyberman]

Next season, bookies have Utd behind City, Pool and Chelsea. Think we’ll be in a battle for 4th.

Next transfer window will be a big factor.

Means nothing without a transfer window and those teams arent magically going to get better. All but City have bigger problems than us.

 

[r0663664]

How did we do against top 6?

Liverpool were 10th in the league when Klopp took over in October. Names included in his first lineup...Mignolet, Sakho, Clyne, Skrtel, Moreno, Milner at LW, Origi up front. Adam Bogdan, Kolo Toure, Jerome Sinclair, Joao Carlos Texiera and Connor Randall on the bench. Not even comparable. Such a crap comparison if you did any homework. Regardless, he took them to a Europa League final (beating us, Dortmund and Villarreal) and a League Cop final vs City, which they lost on pens. In his first season, whilst completely changing their football which was evident to see in the early stages. Solid start to his rebuild.

Since then they have been to the CL final, CL Winners, PL winners etc. Klopp was always very clearly more than a manager that relied solely on player, he implemented his changes early on. The team that took him to the CL final vs Real Madrid saw the likes of Karius in goals, Lovren at CB, Milner and Henderson in midfield, Mignolet, Clyne, Klavan Moreno & Solanke on the bench.

I think Klopp spent about £400m to take Liverpool from 10th to CL and PL winners, only spending about £8m in the 2 windows before they won the PL. How much has Ole spent on a considerably stronger squad to start with? £300m roughly. And we apparently need Kane, Sancho, Rice and Verane...it's got beyond a joke now with the excuses. Total chequebook manager.

Do you think Ole could have done what Klopp did at Liverpool? Absolutely no chance.

Agreed. Ole can't keep buying players. Look at Liverpool team, Mane was a Southampton player, Saleh was bought from Roma. Firmino, you would take him as your main striker at Utd. Henderson was just like average midfielder, nothing like Gerrard. VVD and Allison is where he bought with big money.

Rashford is still the same, Martial is worst than before. Greenwood is destined to be great even before Ole arrive. AWB is good defensively but not offensive. Which players has perform at a higher level since Ole join? Fred? Shaw? Who else? We really need a manager with Klopp pedigree. I don't think Ole is the man.

 

[Champ]

Liverpool were 10th in the league when Klopp took over in October. Names included in his first lineup...Mignolet, Sakho, Clyne, Skrtel, Moreno, Milner at LW, Origi up front. Adam Bogdan, Kolo Toure, Jerome Sinclair, Joao Carlos Texiera and Connor Randall on the bench. Not even comparable. Such a crap comparison if you did any homework. Regardless, he took them to a Europa League final (beating us, Dortmund and Villarreal) and a League Cop final vs City, which they lost on pens. In his first season, whilst completely changing their football which was evident to see in the early stages. Solid start to his rebuild.

Since then they have been to the CL final, CL Winners, PL winners etc. Klopp was always very clearly more than a manager that relied solely on player, he implemented his changes early on. The team that took him to the CL final vs Real Madrid saw the likes of Karius in goals, Lovren at CB, Milner and Henderson in midfield, Mignolet, Clyne, Klavan Moreno & Solanke on the bench.

I think Klopp spent about £400m to take Liverpool from 10th to CL and PL winners, only spending about £8m in the 2 windows before they won the PL. How much has Ole spent on a considerably stronger squad to start with? £300m roughly. And we apparently need Kane, Sancho, Rice and Verane...it's got beyond a joke now with the excuses. Total chequebook manager.

Do you think Ole could have done what Klopp did at Liverpool? Absolutely no chance.

Sorry, where was I comparing Ole to Klopp? Little confused by your post!

I highlighted that Klopp made multiple signings in order to create a new first 11, all in the space of 4 transfer windows. No comparison with Ole in that, merely highlighting the truth?!

If you wanted to compare them, start now, as by this point at Liverpool Klopp had made several high profile signings and had a complete new starting 11, at last count Ole had signed 10 players, (Klopp was up to 18 signings).

Do you think Klopp could have done what Ole did at Molde? (No one can answer that as it's a hypothetical question based on agendas and personal opinion, but I ask it to show the idiocy of asking such as question).

 

[Rozay]

I think both signings were made with Pogbas departure in mind, which at the time of both arrivals was looking like it would happen sooner rather than later,

Obviously Pogba hasn't left and so you are left with two players who are too good to be left out of the starting 11.

That’s possibly true, but while it isn’t easy to interpret from comments, it appears that Ole really wants Pogba to stay, and always has done. If he does, then what?

I don’t think that over the course of last summer it looked like there was any real possibility of Pogba leaving in that window at any point. Surely that VDB signing at least could have waited then? In fact, the same could have been said of the Bruno signing last January. Whatever happened, Pogba clearly wasn’t leaving then. And as it stands, seems up in the air whether he will leave at all.

That said, COVID and the market changes may have impacted this potential departure.

 

[Marwood]

And how many of Fergie’s first winning XI were there in his last? Players are obviously changed over the course of a number of years, they get older, they pass their peaks, some simply want to leave - you made it sound as if these go out and buy new starting XIs at once or something. Buying players is also coaching related anyway, as anyone who has a plan can then buy in the profile that suits.

They buy a few new players every year, same as everyone else. Any ‘we need Kane, Sancho, Rice and Varane to compete’ stuff is bollocks though. It basically says if all of our players aren’t the best in the world then how can we be expected to do well? Yet Pep can play without his only world class striker for a whole season, a season where his main goalscoring winger hasn’t even played well, and where his star AM was injured for 6 weeks. Yet he won every game in that period by simply putting Ilkay Gundogan up front! Meanwhile down the road, you have people claiming that Jordan fecking Henderson should win POTY. While our story always seems to be ‘what can we be expected to do? We have no Neymar, Mbappé, Kane or Varane’.

Klopp did almost that in his first two summers. Certainly within the first three. Why did he bother if its not about players?

Why didn't he stick with Benteke and Ings instead of replacing them with Mané and Salah?

Why does Pep buy so many defenders? Why not coach the first batch he bought if its down to coaching rather than players?

City can cope without De Bruyne because they have a high quality replacement.

We struggle a bit without Maguire. It'd be a lot easier if we had Laporte as backup instead of Bailly.

If you really think it's not about players you must be really confused as to why the worlds best managers sign lots of players.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Calling it right now, no matter who we bring in the summer we won't catch city. Not while they have Pep and we have Ole. Even if we match their squad quality coaching wise we are worlds apart.

So with the title being out of question, then yes we'll find ourselves fighting for top 4 once again.

Of course we wont and anyone who thinks we will is delusional. We are miles off of the quality of squad that City currently has and I can only see that gap getting bigger as City bring in the likes of Harry Cane.
This has nothing to do with the level of our coach and all to do with the level of investment.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I still back ole, but i have to admit i am worried. I dont know, i am having doubts as to whether he can motivate the players.

 

[Rozay]

Klopp did almost that in his first two summers. Certainly within the first three. Why did he bother if its not about players?

Why didn't he stick with Benteke and Ings instead of replacing them with Mané and Salah?

Why does Pep buy so many defenders? Why not coach the first batch he bought if its down to coaching rather than players?

City can cope without De Bruyne because they have a high quality replacement.

We struggle a bit without Maguire. It'd be a lot easier if we had Laporte as backup instead of Bailly.

If you really think it's not about players you must be really confused as to why the worlds best managers sign lots of players.

Again, everyone buys players. Klopp did, Pep does. We do too. We just get different results.

We are here saying we need to buy the best striker and the best winger in the world. This is not the approach needed by the other two. It is needed for us because simply, we wouldn’t be able to have bought Salah from Roma, Mané from Southampton a Wijnaldum from Newcastle and win the league and the CL. The issue is that we haven’t worked out why, and seem to feel that it is because we don’t have Kane, Sancho and Varane.

You say City can cope without De Bruyne because he has a high quality replacement. Really? Who is that? De Bruyne is head and shoulders above as an individual. We have a ‘high quality replacement’. In theory. We signed Donny from Ajax for £40m, but are now claiming he isn’t good enough. I suppose we need Neymar instead. Jesus isn’t a particularly high quality replacement for Aguero either. No better than what we have anyway.

How many City and Liverpool players in recent years have been signed that have made you say ‘oh shit’? Probably not many. They are all good players like most of the ones we buy. Which City player do you think would look just as good if he came to United? Would Ole walk the league with City’s squad? A City squad with no Aguero, Jesus or KDB for months. Would he be able to get Gundogan to step in?

 

[pocco]

Sorry, where was I comparing Ole to Klopp? Little confused by your post!

I highlighted that Klopp made multiple signings in order to create a new first 11, all in the space of 4 transfer windows. No comparison with Ole in that, merely highlighting the truth?!

If you wanted to compare them, start now, as by this point at Liverpool Klopp had made several high profile signings and had a complete new starting 11, at last count Ole had signed 10 players, (Klopp was up to 18 signings).

Do you think Klopp could have done what Ole did at Molde? (No one can answer that as it's a hypothetical question based on agendas and personal opinion, but I ask it to show the idiocy of asking such as question).

You were painting out as though Klopp needed a new team to make improvements. This isn't true as he took a seriously poor Liverpool squad to two finals in his first season. I don't get why anybody wants to draw any sort of comparison to Klopp when Ole is clearly not in the same bracket.

And in answer to your hypothetical question, because I can answer in confidence based on his history as a manager, of course Klopp could have done what he did. The reason I ask this question is because of a) the squad at Ole's disposal b) the money he has spent and c) the money he still needs. All of this and Ole managed a EL final, same as Klopp with a crap squad.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Lots could change, but with Ole I predict top 4 and no trophies if he stays.

 

[ray24]

Again, everyone buys players. Klopp did, Pep does. We do too. We just get different results.

We are here saying we need to buy the best striker and the best winger in the world. This is not the approach needed by the other two. It is needed for us because simply, we wouldn’t be able to have bought Salah from Roma, Mané from Southampton a Wijnaldum from Newcastle and win the league and the CL. The issue is that we haven’t worked out why, and seem to feel that it is because we don’t have Kane, Sancho and Varane.

You say City can cope without De Bruyne because he has a high quality replacement. Really? Who is that? De Bruyne is head and shoulders above as an individual. We have a ‘high quality replacement’. In theory. We signed Donny from Ajax for £40m, but are now claiming he isn’t good enough. I suppose we need Neymar instead. Jesus isn’t a particularly high quality replacement for Aguero either. No better than what we have anyway.

How many City and Liverpool players in recent years have been signed that have made you say ‘oh shit’? Probably not many. They are all good players like most of the ones we buy. Which City player do you think would look just as good if he came to United? Would Ole walk the league with City’s squad? A City squad with no Aguero, Jesus or KDB for months. Would he be able to get Gundogan to step in?

Because Utd as a club is too used to relying on individual brilliance to win games rather than improving the team tactially. It's ingrained in your club DNA.

 

[Solius]

As the squad currently is I see us fighting for Top 4.

 

[Moriarty]

Well, Ole need to strengthen his squad in more than one position. The big question is; will the Glazers do that? If they do, I can see us making a huge statement next season. If not, we will be better than this season, but not better than City.

I was wondering about that. Will they try and placate the fans by spending big or will they stick two fingers up and tell Ole he has sell before he can buy? With Woodward on his way out, we may not see a lot of transfer action this summer.

 

[Acquire Me]

I was wondering about that. Will they try and placate the fans by spending big or will they stick two fingers up and tell Ole he has sell before he can buy? With Woodward on his way out, we may not see a lot of transfer action this summer.

That would kill our next season for sure. I just know that the competition will strengthen their squads.

 

[gerdm07]

What's funny is most of you cite the manager for reasons we might have it tougher next year. Many of you do not acknowledge that City are clearly better than we are and Liverpool, when healthy, are better player for player. Now maybe the transfer window might change that dynamic, but right now we are not better and the best manager in the world would not make a big difference.

We've improved the past couple of seasons and I hope it continues such that we are on par with City and Liverpool soon.

Lastly, this is an historic City team if they win the CL. A treble, a CL title, and 3 out of 4 PL titles is very impressive. It could be we will have to deal with the fact City might dominate for the next few years until Guardiola leaves and age takes it toll. Our name does not guarantee anything.

 

[Marwood]

You were painting out as though Klopp needed a new team to make improvements. This isn't true as he took a seriously poor Liverpool squad to two finals in his first season. I don't get why anybody wants to draw any sort of comparison to Klopp when Ole is clearly not in the same bracket.

And in answer to your hypothetical question, because I can answer in confidence based on his history as a manager, of course Klopp could have done what he did. The reason I ask this question is because of a) the squad at Ole's disposal b) the money he has spent and c) the money he still needs. All of this and Ole managed a EL final, same as Klopp with a crap squad.

He didn't need a new team to make some improvements but you'd agree he still did go out and buy a new team right?

This isn't to undermind him. I think he's been the best manager in the world for a while now.

His first 10 or so signings were excellent and that's to his credit. But he did still need to make those signings.

It's why I'm hopeful for next next season. If you've got a good base those two or three perfect signings can really elevate a team.

 

[rron10]

What's funny is most of you cite the manager for reasons we might have it tougher next year. Many of you do not acknowledge that City are clearly better than we are and Liverpool, when healthy, are better player for player. Now maybe the transfer window might change that dynamic, but right now we are not better and the best manager in the world would not make a big difference.

We've improved the past couple of seasons and I hope it continues such that we are on par with City and Liverpool soon.

Lastly, this is an historic City team if they win the CL. A treble, a CL title, and 3 out of 4 PL titles is very impressive. It could be we will have to deal with the fact City might dominate for the next few years until Guardiola leaves and age takes it toll. Our name does not guarantee anything.

I agree, our fans are about doom and gloom but the reality is that we've improved.

Winning on penalties against a mediocre Villareal side would of made us favorites for the title or CL next year ?

We are not catching this City side for a long long time because 1. They have the best manager in the world and 2. We cannot catch them regarding squad quality, we are too far behind and we can't outspend them ever.

 

[Rozay]

Because Utd as a club is too used to relying on individual brilliance to win games rather than improving the team tactially. It's ingrained in your club DNA.

Agree 100%.

 

[HailtotheKing]

I think we're going to be in a fight for 4th but of course, it all depends on the transfers. I think it's pointless comparing us to City, they have two teams. And Chelsea are heading that way too. We essentially have 13 players that Ole trusts and he drives them into the ground. That's the issue. And we completely depend on individual brilliance. It's clear as day in how he speaks. Like how he rationalised not subbing anyone until the 110th minute. Madness. That's terrifying, frankly. Because as long as this continues, it means he is going to drive those trusted players into the ground. So every time we come to the end of the season, we're gonna be dead. When that's the business end, that's where traditionally United would kick on. The other part is the fact our rivals have a way of playing. So regardless of the fact your star player gets injured or goes missing, the player that comes in just slots straight into the system. We don't have that with Ole. Which is why he's so bad at rotating the team and trusting his subs. Because he trusts in the players individual brilliance. That means unless we get the players he wants, we're going to be in trouble. This is a HUGE transfer window. He also needs better coaches. You can't have everyone learning on the job. Or progress will be very slow and we will be left behind.

 

[r0663664]

I agree, our fans are about doom and gloom but the reality is that we've improved.

Winning on penalties against a mediocre Villareal side would of made us favorites for the title or CL next year ?

We are not catching this City side for a long long time because 1. They have the best manager in the world and 2. We cannot catch them regarding squad quality, we are too far behind and we can't outspend them ever.

Agree. Since we can never out spend, we need a manager who is tactical solid and improve players. We will never ever outbid City if we are going for the same player and that is a fact. Ole is not the one. If Ole stays, I won't see us winning anything. I hope he can make me happy with bringing youngster into the squad like Hannibal, Amad, Pellistri and other into the first team.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don't think we are going to be in the top 3. Yes fighting for 4th with Arsenal, and maybe West Ham?

 

[NZT-One]

If theres one thing I take from Ole and Uniteds transfers so far is that there IS a plan.

There seems to be more emphasis on the collectivism rather than the individual, and on character rather than pure stats. This can only be a good thing moving forward as we are less likely to see the 'Galaticos' style that we got accustomed to under Woodward.

I really doubt we are looking at Kane as a realistic aquisition, I would be surprised if we don't have a conversation with Kane about a move, but the plan seems to be to look for the multiple signings we truly need rather than an indivdual signing.

We know our strength in depth is lacking, hopefully the likes of Amad, Chong (maybe) and a few others can make the next step into being able deputies to enable us to concentrate on three solid signings in the positions we need.

As for CIty's signings, it has taken Pep several defensive signings to get to where they are now, they may have an idea of the players they need but they have failed in this appraoch multiple times, (I hvae lost count of the amount of defenders Pep has purchased!)

I'd like to add to the already brilliant response you got from Rozay, that "what you said" and "what Rozay said" isn't an either or-situation. Of course, we should be looking at the characters of players and search for the right fits. In the end of the day, a football team is a group of people, characters, that have to comfort and challenge each other. But this doesn't mean, you cannot also look for player with certain skillsets to compliment the way you want to play or, even more precise, to compliment the play you want this player to play. I would even turn it the other way around: not only do you have to make sure, that the player fits character wise but you also have to make sure, he fits playing-wise. It is mostly the same in all other work environments anyway. You don't get to become the CEO just because your cool and calm. You need to know your stuff.

The scattergun approach from Woody in the days after SAF exit was terrible. Wrong on so many levels. So it certainly is a good development, that we make sure to consider the character of a player again. But, and even if historically, United did very well by just "getting the right players in", it isn't a given, that this approach will cut it these days. Of course you want your manager to be able to come up with a good plan with the players available, but the top top managers, the ones you want to oversee a longer period of time, they are also needed to assemble the right squad for a specific way play. This is, where I personally still see issues. We brought Maguire in, a tall dominant but slow defender, which is fine, as long as you dont want to play with a high line to make the pressing more effective. We brought AWB, an excellent young defender with issues going forward. While already having Shaw that has issues going forward. While having almost no natural winger available to provide width. We bought DVB to... to what? To cover for Pogba when he might leave? How would he do that - they have completely different skillsets.

All in all: Recruiting is key. But I, as well as others, get a feeling, that the majority of the fanbase craves for the latest great player in great form. Such an approach is not sustainable. Especially not the owners like ours. It is a necessity, way more for us than for our competitors like City and Chelsea, to buy as smart as possible. And that means making it as sure as possible, to get the absolute maximum out of the new recruits. And thats where the circles is closing and connecting tactics, man management, available squad and recruitment.

 

[Denis79]

I don't expect us to challenge for the title.

 

[Marwood]

Again, everyone buys players. Klopp did, Pep does. We do too. We just get different results.

We are here saying we need to buy the best striker and the best winger in the world. This is not the approach needed by the other two. It is needed for us because simply, we wouldn’t be able to have bought Salah from Roma, Mané from Southampton a Wijnaldum from Newcastle and win the league and the CL. The issue is that we haven’t worked out why, and seem to feel that it is because we don’t have Kane, Sancho and Varane.

You say City can cope without De Bruyne because he has a high quality replacement. Really? Who is that? De Bruyne is head and shoulders above as an individual. We have a ‘high quality replacement’. In theory. We signed Donny from Ajax for £40m, but are now claiming he isn’t good enough. I suppose we need Neymar instead. Jesus isn’t a particularly high quality replacement for Aguero either. No better than what we have anyway.

How many City and Liverpool players in recent years have been signed that have made you say ‘oh shit’? Probably not many. They are all good players like most of the ones we buy. Which City player do you think would look just as good if he came to United? Would Ole walk the league with City’s squad? A City squad with no Aguero, Jesus or KDB for months. Would he be able to get Gundogan to step in?

Your initial point, the one I responded to, was that "it's not about players." So I pointed out if that's the case why do the best two managers in the world but lots of them.

Your argument above is different. There you're saying we shouldn't have to buy Kane and Sancho to compete.

That I actually agree with. It's not always about buying the biggest, flashiest, names. It's about scouting, having a manager that knows what he wants, a firm idea of players that compliment each other. Well done Klopp and Pep for doing just that.

I think it's a bit unfair to single out VdB
as an example of poor coaching. Let's give it a bit more time. It's taken Pep time to get a tune out of a few.

Just because fans weren't wowed by a signing means very little to me. If anything it tells you us fams don't know as much as we think we do.

It absolutely in the end is about players.

If City had to replace De Bruyne with Andreas Pereira it would very evident to you.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think you're ignoring the setup that Wolves had, where they collapsed backwards and didn't really press, even in a midblock, which suited those players down to the ground. I certainly wouldn't play those players in that system against a Liverpool.

The one time we beat Liverpool this season, Donny started and played very well. Much better than Fernandes usually plays vs them. And that's not to say that Donny is better than Bruno. It's to emphasize @Rozay 's point that the collective is more important than any individual player.

Any good manager will base his transfer targets on getting the best out of the collective, and that's how Pep and Klopp have been able to build squads with multiple players without having to pay a record fee every time for the absolute best player in their position. If we're needing 300M+ for Sancho, Grealish, Kane, etc to challenge, then the hard truth is we'll never challenge.

 

[Rozay]

Your initial point, the one I responded to, was that "it's not about players." So I pointed out if that's the case why do the best two managers in the world but lots of them.

Your argument above is different. There you're saying we shouldn't have to buy Kane and Sancho to compete.

That I actually agree with. It's not always about buying the biggest, flashiest, names. It's about scouting, having a manager that knows what he wants, a firm idea of players that compliment each other. Well done Klopp and Pep for doing just that.

I think it's a bit unfair to single out VdB
as an example of poor coaching. Let's give it a bit more time. It's taken Pep time to get a tune out of a few.

Just because fans weren't wowed by a signing means very little to me. If anything it tells you us fams don't know as much as we think we do.

It absolutely in the end is about players.

If City had to replace De Bruyne with Andreas Pereira it would very evident to you.

When I said ‘it isn’t about players’, I’m not saying that it isn’t XI footballers that go out there and pass the ball and score goals for Pep and Klopp. I’m saying that the difference between our teams is not that they have top footballers and we don’t. Give or take different interpretations of squad depth, I’d say all three squads are roughly at par in terms of quality, if this were a computer game with stats on a card.

Of course, they buy football players. Every team buys football players, because they literally need football players. They do NOT go and necessarily buy Kane, Pogba, Sancho, Varane, Falcao and the rest though. So in theory, I don’t see why would need to. We only feel that we need to because we don’t have a clue, so have to just assemble an all star XI and hope that they figure it out.

And I’m almost certain that if Andreas Periera had been at City in recent years he’d be considered a better player than he is today.

I suspect we will buy Sancho, and I expect that he will disappoint, relatively speaking, and the same conversation will be had about us needing better.

You saying that it’s about players would suggest that the reason City are better than us is simply because they have better footballers, which I disagree with, personally. City are the best team because of the on field relationship those players have with each other. It is far better than the relationship ours have with each other. Speaking of Donny - the Ajax team that he left had a fantastic relationship with each other too, which in turn made the apparently not good enough VDB look a very good player. They, Ajax Amsterdam, were able to play Spurs, Real and Juve off the park with Donny, Tadic, Neres and Ziyech upfront. I can guarantee that each of these players would be considered not good enough for United by our fans. They aren’t the world’s best. But if a coach can get them playing like that, then even though ours are not Kane, Sancho and co - why can we not be gotten to pass and move a fecking football with what we have? If we play better than our opponent more often than we do, then we can start looking at player quality. But teams like Burnley, Brighton, Fulham, West Ham, Just-about-anyone often play us off the park, irrespective of whether Bruno scores a penalty or Cavani scores a header to get a result in the end.

Sorry for the late response, been out!

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Again, everyone buys players. Klopp did, Pep does. We do too. We just get different results.

We are here saying we need to buy the best striker and the best winger in the world. This is not the approach needed by the other two. It is needed for us because simply, we wouldn’t be able to have bought Salah from Roma, Mané from Southampton a Wijnaldum from Newcastle and win the league and the CL. The issue is that we haven’t worked out why, and seem to feel that it is because we don’t have Kane, Sancho and Varane.

You say City can cope without De Bruyne because he has a high quality replacement. Really? Who is that? De Bruyne is head and shoulders above as an individual. We have a ‘high quality replacement’. In theory. We signed Donny from Ajax for £40m, but are now claiming he isn’t good enough. I suppose we need Neymar instead. Jesus isn’t a particularly high quality replacement for Aguero either. No better than what we have anyway.

How many City and Liverpool players in recent years have been signed that have made you say ‘oh shit’? Probably not many. They are all good players like most of the ones we buy. Which City player do you think would look just as good if he came to United? Would Ole walk the league with City’s squad? A City squad with no Aguero, Jesus or KDB for months. Would he be able to get Gundogan to step in?

Too much logic in this post.

 

[tenpoless]

Again, everyone buys players. Klopp did, Pep does. We do too. We just get different results.

We are here saying we need to buy the best striker and the best winger in the world. This is not the approach needed by the other two. It is needed for us because simply, we wouldn’t be able to have bought Salah from Roma, Mané from Southampton a Wijnaldum from Newcastle and win the league and the CL. The issue is that we haven’t worked out why, and seem to feel that it is because we don’t have Kane, Sancho and Varane.

You say City can cope without De Bruyne because he has a high quality replacement. Really? Who is that? De Bruyne is head and shoulders above as an individual. We have a ‘high quality replacement’. In theory. We signed Donny from Ajax for £40m, but are now claiming he isn’t good enough. I suppose we need Neymar instead. Jesus isn’t a particularly high quality replacement for Aguero either. No better than what we have anyway.

How many City and Liverpool players in recent years have been signed that have made you say ‘oh shit’? Probably not many. They are all good players like most of the ones we buy. Which City player do you think would look just as good if he came to United? Would Ole walk the league with City’s squad? A City squad with no Aguero, Jesus or KDB for months. Would he be able to get Gundogan to step in?

This'll be the excuse if Ole was in charge at City and Bluemoon and RedCafe swapped members.

 

[ray24]

This'll be the excuse if Ole was in charge at City and Bluemoon and RedCafe swapped members.

Bluemoon would have hounded Ole out, because their clubs is more used to systems making players better.

 

[Gavinb33]

When I said ‘it isn’t about players’, I’m not saying that it isn’t XI footballers that go out there and pass the ball and score goals for Pep and Klopp. I’m saying that the difference between our teams is not that they have top footballers and we don’t. Give or take different interpretations of squad depth, I’d say all three squads are roughly at par in terms of quality, if this were a computer game with stats on a card.

Of course, they buy football players. Every team buys football players, because they literally need football players. They do NOT go and necessarily buy Kane, Pogba, Sancho, Varane, Falcao and the rest though. So in theory, I don’t see why would need to. We only feel that we need to because we don’t have a clue, so have to just assemble an all star XI and hope that they figure it out.

And I’m almost certain that if Andreas Periera had been at City in recent years he’d be considered a better player than he is today.

I suspect we will buy Sancho, and I expect that he will disappoint, relatively speaking, and the same conversation will be had about us needing better.

You saying that it’s about players would suggest that the reason City are better than us is simply because they have better footballers, which I disagree with, personally. City are the best team because of the on field relationship those players have with each other. It is far better than the relationship ours have with each other. Speaking of Donny - the Ajax team that he left had a fantastic relationship with each other too, which in turn made the apparently not good enough VDB look a very good player. They, Ajax Amsterdam, were able to play Spurs, Real and Juve off the park with Donny, Tadic, Neres and Ziyech upfront. I can guarantee that each of these players would be considered not good enough for United by our fans. They aren’t the world’s best. But if a coach can get them playing like that, then even though ours are not Kane, Sancho and co - why can we not be gotten to pass and move a fecking football with what we have? If we play better than our opponent more often than we do, then we can start looking at player quality. But teams like Burnley, Brighton, Fulham, West Ham, Just-about-anyone often play us off the park, irrespective of whether Bruno scores a penalty or Cavani scores a header to get a result in the end.

Sorry for the late response, been out!

3 squads on par on paper?

City in the wide forward positions alone Sterling, Mahrez, De Bruyne (can also there), Torres, Silva (can play there)

We have Rashford, Greenwood, James, Mata, Amad, Martial and Pogba plays there.

Their depth pisses on ours the squads on paper are not even close, central midfield, full backs and center backs at city, we might have some superior players but it might only be one or 2 but they have superior players as back ups than any of ours, Rodri would walk into our team, he might not even start the CL final for God's sake

 

[NZT-One]

3 squads on par on paper?

City in the wide forward positions alone Sterling, Mahrez, De Bruyne (can also there), Torres, Silva (can play there)

We have Rashford, Greenwood, James, Mata, Amad, Martial and Pogba plays there.

Their depth pisses on ours the squads on paper are not even close, central midfield, full backs and center backs at city, we might have some superior players but it might only be one or 2 but they have superior players as back ups than any of ours, Rodri would walk into our team, he might not even start the CL final for God's sake

All this while having no real good LB, no real striker, having Sterling, one of their main performers of the last 2-3 years, out of form and out of the eleven, having a sicknote of a player in Gundogan coming out of nowhere to perform on unknown level. Just after having their ass handed by Liverpool the year before and the year before were seriously challenged. All this by adding Dias, a player with a slightly better reputation than Lindelof when we bought and Ferran Torres who just happened to be able to deliver great performances without too much time to get used to the new environment.

I am sure, your text reads more harshly than it is meant and I also wouldn't agree that the three squads are roughly on par but the differences surely aren't as big as your post seems to depict it. On a scale where the perfect squad gets 10 points, I'd have ManCity at 8.5 , Pool on 6.5 - 7 just like us. Keeping in mind, that there is quite a chance, that the Liverpool team mainly has peaked already while the majority of players in our squad aren't there yet.

For me, the biggest blows this season were the games against Sheffield, Westbrom, Basaksehir, Newcastle plus the cup game against Leicester and the last match against Liverpool. I'll give you Liverpool but the rest of these performances certainly weren't that bad because the player material just ain't good enough.

 

[Amarsdd]

We seem to have these sorts of threads last couple of seasons either at the end or at the beginning. I understand a bit of pessimism due to the bad end of the season but every first thought looking at the next season seems to be that we will regress and every other competing teams will improve massively. Whereas the evidence has been the other way round. People might not like the amount of improvement but we have and we will too next season.

 

[DeGea]

When I said ‘it isn’t about players’, I’m not saying that it isn’t XI footballers that go out there and pass the ball and score goals for Pep and Klopp. I’m saying that the difference between our teams is not that they have top footballers and we don’t. Give or take different interpretations of squad depth, I’d say all three squads are roughly at par in terms of quality, if this were a computer game with stats on a card.

Of course, they buy football players. Every team buys football players, because they literally need football players. They do NOT go and necessarily buy Kane, Pogba, Sancho, Varane, Falcao and the rest though. So in theory, I don’t see why would need to. We only feel that we need to because we don’t have a clue, so have to just assemble an all star XI and hope that they figure it out.

And I’m almost certain that if Andreas Periera had been at City in recent years he’d be considered a better player than he is today.

I suspect we will buy Sancho, and I expect that he will disappoint, relatively speaking, and the same conversation will be had about us needing better.

You saying that it’s about players would suggest that the reason City are better than us is simply because they have better footballers, which I disagree with, personally. City are the best team because of the on field relationship those players have with each other. It is far better than the relationship ours have with each other. Speaking of Donny - the Ajax team that he left had a fantastic relationship with each other too, which in turn made the apparently not good enough VDB look a very good player. They, Ajax Amsterdam, were able to play Spurs, Real and Juve off the park with Donny, Tadic, Neres and Ziyech upfront. I can guarantee that each of these players would be considered not good enough for United by our fans. They aren’t the world’s best. But if a coach can get them playing like that, then even though ours are not Kane, Sancho and co - why can we not be gotten to pass and move a fecking football with what we have? If we play better than our opponent more often than we do, then we can start looking at player quality. But teams like Burnley, Brighton, Fulham, West Ham, Just-about-anyone often play us off the park, irrespective of whether Bruno scores a penalty or Cavani scores a header to get a result in the end.

Sorry for the late response, been out!

Completely agree.

It is not just about players, it is about coaching and management. We certainly don’t buy “shit” players. The quality that we buy vs Liverpool and City is probably about the same but this comment of “oh City and Liverpool have bought better players” is usually made in hindsight, after a season of play in which Pep and Klopp have made the players that they buy look great and play great due to their coaching and management.

Ole is great at man management, not sure he is as good at coaching players as Klopp and Pep. The same goes for his coaching team around him. Love the guy, but coaching wise he is just not as good unfortunately.

I think if Pep or Klopp had our squad, they might have won us the league. Not sure Ole with City’s squad would be able to do the same.