Angel Gomes - Will he stay or will he go? | Contract Expired 30th June and he's left the club

I've said this before, probably in this thread, but I think Gomes' lack of minutes is not just down to his lack of physicality. I believe Ole has kept him out of the side mostly due to the importance of the #10 role and how dysfunctional the team has been most of the season.

Had we been in stronger positions during matches, I think he may have been given quite a few more minutes towards the end of games. However, throwing him in to the team during a very difficult period and expecting him to control the game could have had a detrimental effect on him with regards to confidence and development.

It sounds contradictory but I think with Bruno now here and Pogba back fit, we may see Ole be happier to slot Gomes in as a late sub for one of them if we have more control and are comfortably leading. Not only will there be less pressure but we will have on those guys there to guide him along too.

Asking him to step into the first team earlier and be the main man would have been too much IMO.
 
youngrell said:
I've said this before, probably in this thread, but I think Gomes' lack of minutes is not just down to his lack of physicality. I believe Ole has kept him out of the side mostly due to the importance of the #10 role and how dysfunctional the team has been most of the season.

Had we been in stronger positions during matches, I think he may have been given quite a few more minutes towards the end of games. However, throwing him in to the team during a very difficult period and expecting him to control the game could have had a detrimental effect on him with regards to confidence and development.

It sounds contradictory but I think with Bruno now here and Pogba back fit, we may see Ole be happier to slot Gomes in as a late sub for one of them if we have more control and are comfortably leading. Not only will there be less pressure but we will have on those guys there to guide him along too.

Asking him to step into the first team earlier and be the main man would have been too much IMO.
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Yeah, its definitely easier to shine when you're coming on when the team is 2 or 3 goals up and the opposition have been run ragged as opposed to being thrown in when we're desperately trying to get a goal or, worse still, having to start and be the creative focal point because we're low on options.
 
ivaldo said:
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not saying James is a 10. I'm saying we played him basically every game on the right. How many games has he played there? He's been run into the ground and Chong still hasn't been giving a proper run out. He's opted to play Mata there when he likes to have pace out wide

He's been playing Andreas, Lingard and Mata there. He's been playing mostly James and occasionally Greenwood on the right.

I'll say it yet again. I do not think he's ready for the first team. Stop trying to insinuate I've said that. I haven't. It might make your point easier to make but tough. Reply to what I've said, not what you'd like me to have said. You're trying to make out that Chong being given a combined 34 minutes in the premier League somehow makes him more highly rated than Gomes. You didn't respond to my Scholes/Butt analogy because you know it contradicts this point you're trying to make. The same as the posts made to you about personal development. Which is exactly why you were trying to argue that a highlight video of Gomes had him being outshone by Chong making some simple runs and missing from 4 yards. It's really incredible anyone can make that claim seriously.
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Chong has more minutes than Gomes. For lots of reasons too, seems strange why we'd have an apparent world class player in the under 23s whose not getting game time when a player who is supposedly worse than him is?!!? I'm sure you'll point to positions again, despite not being able to name our multitude of number 10s!!

As for Butt/Scholes, you forget that Scholes started life as a striker and only dropped into midfield when Keane got injured.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, merely suggesting that there's a multitude of reasons why Gomes hasn't had any playing time this season for the senior team, size, physicality, and quite possibly aptitude.
 
youngrell said:
I've said this before, probably in this thread, but I think Gomes' lack of minutes is not just down to his lack of physicality. I believe Ole has kept him out of the side mostly due to the importance of the #10 role and how dysfunctional the team has been most of the season.

Had we been in stronger positions during matches, I think he may have been given quite a few more minutes towards the end of games. However, throwing him in to the team during a very difficult period and expecting him to control the game could have had a detrimental effect on him with regards to confidence and development.

It sounds contradictory but I think with Bruno now here and Pogba back fit, we may see Ole be happier to slot Gomes in as a late sub for one of them if we have more control and are comfortably leading. Not only will there be less pressure but we will have on those guys there to guide him along too.

Asking him to step into the first team earlier and be the main man would have been too much IMO.
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You may have a point, despite what some on this thread seem to think, we have not been blessed with number 10s, Mata being the only natural one. Ole hasn't used a number 10 as such preferring an interchangeable front three/four, maybe with Bruno here we will see a slight change and possibly Gomes as his back up?
It's a dangerous game to play however what with his contract situation!
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Sorry but did you see Messi in 2008? He put the fear of God in me every time he touched the ball at OT.

Also this game comes to mind.



You really cannot compare the two at all!
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That was fun to watch and you make a good point. However, even after that match I'm pretty sure there were people who said Messi was too small for the PL. Many fans and pundits do not believe smaller players can take the ruggedness of the PL.
 
Our options at #10 this season : Lingard, Pereira, Mata
Wingers(2 positions) : Rashford, James, Greenwood

Rashford had a lengthy spell out. I can see why Chong got more minutes. Another factor I see is Chong is more physically mature than Gomes at this point. Can easily see Gomes growing and playing more when he is 21/22.
 
Champ said:
Chong has more minutes than Gomes. For lots of reasons too, seems strange why we'd have an apparent world class player in the under 23s whose not getting game time when a player who is supposedly worse than him is?!!? I'm sure you'll point to positions again, despite not being able to name our multitude of number 10s!!

As for Butt/Scholes, you forget that Scholes started life as a striker and only dropped into midfield when Keane got injured.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, merely suggesting that there's a multitude of reasons why Gomes hasn't had any playing time this season for the senior team, size, physicality, and quite possibly aptitude.
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You sure about that? All you've done is argue against something I haven't said. You've successfully managed to drag the conversation away from your nonsensical claim that Chong looked better than Gomes in that short clip, to discussing their respective abilities as of right now. I have said, repeatedly, that Gomes is not ready for first team football, and yet you're still banging on about how I think he's world class. If you aren't capable of responding to what I write in my post, then don't respond at all. Your desperate attempts to pivot the conversation are becoming tiresome.

So? That has absolutely nothing to do with how a player is rated. You've already told me, Chong getting 34 minutes in the Premier League proves the coaches rate him higher. Nothing beyond that matters.... Apparently, except of course, when it doesn't fit your agenda, then all kinds of variables becomes fair game.

Incorrect. I've literally named three in the very post you've quoted. C- Must. Try. Harder.
 
Champ said:
Chong has more minutes than Gomes. For lots of reasons too, seems strange why we'd have an apparent world class player in the under 23s whose not getting game time when a player who is supposedly worse than him is?!!? I'm sure you'll point to positions again, despite not being able to name our multitude of number 10s!!

As for Butt/Scholes, you forget that Scholes started life as a striker and only dropped into midfield when Keane got injured.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, merely suggesting that there's a multitude of reasons why Gomes hasn't had any playing time this season for the senior team, size, physicality, and quite possibly aptitude.
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I would have liked to have seen Ole play him more than he did, but Gomes also had unfortunate timing with injuries. There were a couple of times he would probably have gotten gametime but he was injured at the time.
 
Champ said:
Chong has more minutes than Gomes. For lots of reasons too, seems strange why we'd have an apparent world class player in the under 23s whose not getting game time when a player who is supposedly worse than him is?!!? I'm sure you'll point to positions again, despite not being able to name our multitude of number 10s!!

As for Butt/Scholes, you forget that Scholes started life as a striker and only dropped into midfield when Keane got injured.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, merely suggesting that there's a multitude of reasons why Gomes hasn't had any playing time this season for the senior team, size, physicality, and quite possibly aptitude.
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I have said it before but it reminds me of when Valencia wouldnt give Isco chances at 19 years old, despite first teamers not doing well at the time and him clearly being a talent and playing in the cup games. He made 6 appearances off the bench and 0 starts for Valencia in the league and champions league. Granada came into money and offered him a bigger role and off he went for just 6 million euros. Straight away he was a star player for them, stayed for 2 seasons and Real Madrid wanted to take him for 30 million euros.

Sometimes clubs get it wrong
 
Ekeke said:
I have said it before but it reminds me of when Valencia wouldnt give Isco chances at 19 years old, despite first teamers not doing well at the time and him clearly being a talent and playing in the cup games. He made 6 appearances off the bench and 0 starts for Valencia in the league and champions league. Granada came into money and offered him a bigger role and off he went for just 6 million euros. Straight away he was a star player for them, stayed for 2 seasons and Real Madrid wanted to take him for 30 million euros.

Sometimes clubs get it wrong
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Malaga it was but I agree with the rest of what you said, the same case can be made towards countless players.
 
gerdm07 said:
That was fun to watch and you make a good point. However, even after that match I'm pretty sure there were people who said Messi was too small for the PL. Many fans and pundits do not believe smaller players can take the ruggedness of the PL.
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Unrelated but look at the state of the pitch, it's quite surprising how far they've come along in 15 years. Players these days don't know how lucky they are!
 
MadDogg said:
I would have liked to have seen Ole play him more than he did, but Gomes also had unfortunate timing with injuries. There were a couple of times he would probably have gotten gametime but he was injured at the time.
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good point, that has definitely had an impact on his game time or opportunities.
 
Ekeke said:
I have said it before but it reminds me of when Valencia wouldnt give Isco chances at 19 years old, despite first teamers not doing well at the time and him clearly being a talent and playing in the cup games. He made 6 appearances off the bench and 0 starts for Valencia in the league and champions league. Granada came into money and offered him a bigger role and off he went for just 6 million euros. Straight away he was a star player for them, stayed for 2 seasons and Real Madrid wanted to take him for 30 million euros.

Sometimes clubs get it wrong
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And again very good point. Hopefully the club don't get this wrong.
I suppose to a lesser degree similar happened with Pogba, albeit with contract issues, what's to say the same hasn't happened here behind the scenes!?
 
ivaldo said:
You sure about that? All you've done is argue against something I haven't said. You've successfully managed to drag the conversation away from your nonsensical claim that Chong looked better than Gomes in that short clip, to discussing their respective abilities as of right now. I have said, repeatedly, that Gomes is not ready for first team football, and yet you're still banging on about how I think he's world class. If you aren't capable of responding to what I write in my post, then don't respond at all. Your desperate attempts to pivot the conversation are becoming tiresome.

So? That has absolutely nothing to do with how a player is rated. You've already told me, Chong getting 34 minutes in the Premier League proves the coaches rate him higher. Nothing beyond that matters.... Apparently, except of course, when it doesn't fit your agenda, then all kinds of variables becomes fair game.

Incorrect. I've literally named three in the very post you've quoted. C- Must. Try. Harder.
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Dude, you make some valid points, but essentially you are trying to belittle my argument that there's a fundamental reason/s behind him not being included in the first team squad.
Some of the other posters have actually pointed out some very good points regarding injuries et al,
Unfortunately it appears you are too fixated in my claim that Chong shows up better than Gomes in the video clip, and that Gomes hasn't had as many minutes as Chong in the first team.
I've repeatedly tried to call out the fact that Chong has been fast tracked into the senior fold, whereas Gomes hasn't, despite making his senior debut in what 2017?! You countered that with a farcical attempt at saying we have a large number of attacking mids/number 10s who are ahead of Gomes, when we clearly don't,
I'm going to leave it here with you, as we seem to be on the same page that he isn't good enough yet for the first team, I was merely trying to pick the bones as to why, when we have many other academy products who have made it into the senior fold,
Maybe, just maybe, he isn't as good as some on the Caf make out? Who knows, only time will tell, maybe the 5 subs a game will put him in with a chance of game time? Who knows,
But what I do know is Chong is ahead of him in terms of footballing development and experience right now.
 
Champ said:
Dude, you make some valid points, but essentially you are trying to belittle my argument that there's a fundamental reason/s behind him not being included in the first team squad.
Some of the other posters have actually pointed out some very good points regarding injuries et al,
Unfortunately it appears you are too fixated in my claim that Chong shows up better than Gomes in the video clip, and that Gomes hasn't had as many minutes as Chong in the first team.
I've repeatedly tried to call out the fact that Chong has been fast tracked into the senior fold, whereas Gomes hasn't, despite making his senior debut in what 2017?! You countered that with a farcical attempt at saying we have a large number of attacking mids/number 10s who are ahead of Gomes, when we clearly don't,
I'm going to leave it here with you, as we seem to be on the same page that he isn't good enough yet for the first team, I was merely trying to pick the bones as to why, when we have many other academy products who have made it into the senior fold,
Maybe, just maybe, he isn't as good as some on the Caf make out? Who knows, only time will tell, maybe the 5 subs a game will put him in with a chance of game time? Who knows,
But what I do know is Chong is ahead of him in terms of footballing development and experience right now.
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Yes, I'm fixated on it because that was the point of discussion. And when it became abundantly clear you were very much in the minority in thinking that Chong missing an open goal from 3 yards wasn't better than everything Gomes did you make the nonsensical claim that the coaches agree with you because he's plenty a few more minutes, thereby moving the goal posts entirely to a point you think you have some ground to stand on. Check back. Its perfectly clear what we were originally discussing, and it's perfectly clear where you decide to pivot. Since then all you've done is make up what I've said to you, saying things like I've said he's world class, or that he should be playing regularly, and when I give you answers to questions you've asked, you pretend I haven't said them. It's astonishing you're still doing this despite being called out multiple times. You claim he's physically developed despite, quite obviously, he isn't, and when they didn't float you move on to your next random point.

Fast tracked? He's played 34 minutes in the PL this season. THIRTY-FOUR. That's 15 more minutes than Chong. The difference at this point is negligible. I'll say this for, what, the 5th time now? GOMES IS NOT READY. Chong getting a few more minutes because he's very quick in a position where we have zero depth and is forgiving enough to give youth a chance, doesn't somehow make him a better player or a better prospect, no matter the mental gymnastics you've gone through to get to this conclusion. I've said there are 3 players ahead of him. The pathetic thing is you try to claim only Mata is a proper #10 in that position, and then you include him as a WINGER when discussing options for the right. At no point, have I ever said 'theres loads of players ahead of him,' that was you. It just conforms to this childish approach you've had the entire time when you regurgitate the same fallacies again and again because it's easier to argue with.

I was happy to discuss this with you, but instead of just discussing ideas, you've just decided what you'd like me to say, then argued against it. Someone looking at your replies to me could be forgiven for thinking you replied to the wrong person.
 
Anyway...back to his contract. Time is ticking. 15 more days to go before it officially ends.
 
ivaldo said:
Yes, I'm fixated on it because that was the point of discussion. And when it became abundantly clear you were very much in the minority in thinking that Chong missing an open goal from 3 yards wasn't better than everything Gomes did you make the nonsensical claim that the coaches agree with you because he's plenty a few more minutes, thereby moving the goal posts entirely to a point you think you have some ground to stand on. Check back. Its perfectly clear what we were originally discussing, and it's perfectly clear where you decide to pivot. Since then all you've done is make up what I've said to you, saying things like I've said he's world class, or that he should be playing regularly, and when I give you answers to questions you've asked, you pretend I haven't said them. It's astonishing you're still doing this despite being called out multiple times. You claim he's physically developed despite, quite obviously, he isn't, and when they didn't float you move on to your next random point.

Fast tracked? He's played 34 minutes in the PL this season. THIRTY-FOUR. That's 15 more minutes than Chong. The difference at this point is negligible. I'll say this for, what, the 5th time now? GOMES IS NOT READY. Chong getting a few more minutes because he's very quick in a position where we have zero depth and is forgiving enough to give youth a chance, doesn't somehow make him a better player or a better prospect, no matter the mental gymnastics you've gone through to get to this conclusion. I've said there are 3 players ahead of him. The pathetic thing is you try to claim only Mata is a proper #10 in that position, and then you include him as a WINGER when discussing options for the right. At no point, have I ever said 'theres loads of players ahead of him,' that was you. It just conforms to this childish approach you've had the entire time when you regurgitate the same fallacies again and again because it's easier to argue with.

I was happy to discuss this with you, but instead of just discussing ideas, you've just decided what you'd like me to say, then argued against it. Someone looking at your replies to me could be forgiven for thinking you replied to the wrong person.
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Jesus dude, calm down :lol:
I haven't moved any goalposts, my thoughts have remained constant throughout, just because two other people claimed my thoughts on the video was incorrect doesn't actually make it incorrect.

So we're agreed, Gomes isn't ready, Chong is. We don't have a large amount of number 10s so it can't be players ahead of Gomes as to the reason he's not getting selected for the match day squad, yet Chong is getting picked despite having options albeit limited,
We're also agreed that there are several players promoted through the academy in the last season ahead of Gomes for whatever reason/s.
Glad we could reach these points, look forward to more discussions with you in future, hopefully by then Gomes would have grown, as adults tend to when they are 20!!
 
0le said:
Anyway...back to his contract. Time is ticking. 15 more days to go before it officially ends.
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Think the fact he’s still training and playing with the first team shows they’re making progress or might have even agreed a new deal.

I assume they might have even signed it but just not announced it yet due to the current climate.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Think the fact he’s still training and playing with the first team shows they’re making progress or might have even agreed a new deal.

I assume they might have even signed it but just not announced it yet due to the current climate.
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That'd make sense.
I assume youth squads and under 23s etc are back training too?
 
Champ said:
Jesus dude, calm down :lol:
I haven't moved any goalposts, my thoughts have remained constant throughout, just because two other people claimed my thoughts on the video was incorrect doesn't actually make it incorrect.

So we're agreed, Gomes isn't ready, Chong is. We don't have a large amount of number 10s so it can't be players ahead of Gomes as to the reason he's not getting selected for the match day squad, yet Chong is getting picked despite having options albeit limited,
We're also agreed that there are several players promoted through the academy in the last season ahead of Gomes for whatever reason/s.
Glad we could reach these points, look forward to more discussions with you in future, hopefully by then Gomes would have grown, as adults tend to when they are 20!!
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Course you have. We were talking specifically about who looked better in that clip. Now we're talking about Chong having more minutes = making him the better player. This is not the same discussion. This isn't rocket science. Ah so other people's opinions don't matter now... :wenger:

No, we haven't agreed. Gomes isn't ready. Chong isn't ready. Playing 15 more minutes in a season isn't the difference between being ready and not being ready. If he was ready, he would actually be playing.

We have Mata, Andreas and Lingard as #10. We have James and Greenwood at a RW. Mata at a push. Ole loves pace out wide but still opts to play Mata there over Chong. So no, your point isn't valid. Chong isn't being picked. He has played 34 minutes all season in the PL. No matter how often you say it, it isn't going to make it true.

Even this point you can't get right. You've had several informative points telling you that your claim all footballers are fully developed by 19 is not true. You've been given numerous examples as evidence. You've repeatedly confused growth with physical development. Again, just because you keep saying something again and again, it doesn't make it true.

We've not discussed any other academy players in any of our posts. This is your most desperate attempt at a strawman yet. Though while we are at it, let's evaluate. Greenwood, for example, is ready, which is why he has 37 appearances this season - that's more games than Chong has minutes. He has 645 minutes in the PL. 645 is a significantly bigger number than 34, though I'm sure you're going to try and claim otherwise. :lol:

So let's clear a few things up.

Neither player is currently ready. Which is why they haven't played a significant number of games. Gomes still needs to develop physically, even though you claim all people stop developing physically the moment they turn 19. Chong plays in a position that is far more forgiving than Gomes, which is why youngsters are regularly brought into the team by starting out wide. Chong has slightly less players ahead of him than Gomes. The player who plays regularly ahead of Chong hadn't played a single minute of top flight football before this season. Greenwood is a CF and is two years younger, yet despite this, Ole overwhelmingly decides to play him ahead of Chong in his position. Chong also has a secondary position he can play on the opposite wing. Gomes has also had injury concerns over the last year. In short, just because Chong has marginally more minutes than Gomes, doesn't automatically make him the better player. The claim is incredibly flawed, and you have only managed to make your stance weaker the longer we've conversed.

I'm glad we cleared that up. I look forward to your strawman arguments, the made-up things I've said, and your persistence in using points already debunked by myself and others.
 
ivaldo said:
Course you have. We were talking specifically about who looked better in that clip. Now we're talking about Chong having more minutes = making him the better player. This is not the same discussion. This isn't rocket science. Ah so other people's opinions don't matter now... :wenger:

No, we haven't agreed. Gomes isn't ready. Chong isn't ready. Playing 15 more minutes in a season isn't the difference between being ready and not being ready. If he was ready, he would actually be playing.

We have Mata, Andreas and Lingard as #10. We have James and Greenwood at a RW. Mata at a push. Ole loves pace out wide but still opts to play Mata there over Chong. So no, your point isn't valid. Chong isn't being picked. He has played 34 minutes all season in the PL. No matter how often you say it, it isn't going to make it true.

Even this point you can't get right. You've had several informative points telling you that your claim all footballers are fully developed by 19 is not true. You've been given numerous examples as evidence. You've repeatedly confused growth with physical development. Again, just because you keep saying something again and again, it doesn't make it true.

We've not discussed any other academy players in any of our posts. This is your most desperate attempt at a strawman yet. Though while we are at it, let's evaluate. Greenwood, for example, is ready, which is why he has 37 appearances this season - that's more games than Chong has minutes. He has 645 minutes in the PL. 645 is a significantly bigger number than 34, though I'm sure you're going to try and claim otherwise. :lol:

So let's clear a few things up.

Neither player is currently ready. Which is why they haven't played a significant number of games. Gomes still needs to develop physically, even though you claim all people stop developing physically the moment they turn 19. Chong plays in a position that is far more forgiving than Gomes, which is why youngsters are regularly brought into the team by starting out wide. Chong has slightly less players ahead of him than Gomes. The player who plays regularly ahead of Chong hadn't played a single minute of top flight football before this season. Greenwood is a CF and is two years younger, yet despite this, Ole overwhelmingly decides to play him ahead of Chong in his position. Chong also has a secondary position he can play on the opposite wing. Gomes has also had injury concerns over the last year. In short, just because Chong has marginally more minutes than Gomes, doesn't automatically make him the better player. The claim is incredibly flawed, and you have only managed to make your stance weaker the longer we've conversed.

I'm glad we cleared that up. I look forward to your strawman arguments, the made-up things I've said, and your persistence in using points already debunked by myself and others.
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:lol: :lol:

Forgot Chongs 9 other appearances don't count, sorry about that! Football only exists in the premier League.

Other opinions count, but doesn't mean if they counter mine that they are correct, surely even you can understand that?

Andreas as number 10? You must be kidding!! :lol:
Right wing we have Mata who has played there many times, Lingard has also played there a few times, Greenwood, who is a supreme talent, has played there, James had played there, Dalot has also played there a few times. Quite alot, despite that Chong has had game time.
Nothing straw man there, just cold hard proof my friend.
The evidence I have received regarding physical development have been photos of people bulking up, other than one informative post which agreed with me on most counts. This is what I have suggested he does, bulk up, only to be hit by someone with there reasoning that a footballer doesn't need to do that.
At 19 the vast majority of humans have fully developed, other than rare cases, Gomes could be that rare case, who knows.

You're main arguments now seem to be trying to belittle my valid points rather than adding anything of note to the discussion.

So right now I have it that Gomes cannot get in the team because of these reasons:
Physicality, a huge amount of number 10s at United (!), Not fully grown, injury concerns, not ready yet, the entire coaching staff (and me) are wrong in suggesting that he isn't quite good enough for the first team (yet, hopefully), possible contract wranglings behind the scenes.
 
Champ said:
:lol: :lol:

Forgot Chongs 9 other appearances don't count, sorry about that! Football only exists in the premier League.

Other opinions count, but doesn't mean if they counter mine that they are correct, surely even you can understand that?

Andreas as number 10? You must be kidding!! :lol:
Right wing we have Mata who has played there many times, Lingard has also played there a few times, Greenwood, who is a supreme talent, has played there, James had played there, Dalot has also played there a few times. Quite alot, despite that Chong has had game time.
Nothing straw man there, just cold hard proof my friend.
The evidence I have received regarding physical development have been photos of people bulking up, other than one informative post which agreed with me on most counts. This is what I have suggested he does, bulk up, only to be hit by someone with there reasoning that a footballer doesn't need to do that.
At 19 the vast majority of humans have fully developed, other than rare cases, Gomes could be that rare case, who knows.

You're main arguments now seem to be trying to belittle my valid points rather than adding anything of note to the discussion.

So right now I have it that Gomes cannot get in the team because of these reasons:
Physicality, a huge amount of number 10s at United (!), Not fully grown, injury concerns, not ready yet, the entire coaching staff (and me) are wrong in suggesting that he isn't quite good enough for the first team (yet, hopefully), possible contract wranglings behind the scenes.
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8 other appearances!?! In the League Cup AND in the Europa League?! He's practically a permanent fixture. Move over Greenwood, theres an older, less talented kid in town!

Your 'opinion' is 'correct' is it? How could I possibly counter such a statement. :lol:

Errr... Yes Andreas plays as a #10, regularly. You do watch United play, right?

And here we are, the epitome of doublethink. In once sentence you laugh at the idea of Andreas as a #10, then you have the gall to list Mata as your first option on the right? You're WUMing, right? fecking Dalot? :lol::lol::lol: Getting desperate, are we?

No, they haven't. How many more times do you have to be told this. You've had two, very detailed responses by other members definitively debunking this claim. You have had multiple examples given to you, and yet still you continue this ridiculous line? You still keep deliberately conflating growth and physical development. It's getting childish mate.

Well done. You've managed to list everything I had listed in the post you've quoted. As for the bolded; seriously? In the very post you've quoted I've written 'He isn't ready.' I've counted. This is the fourth time I've said that. And still you come with this? Do you have so little to defend you POV that you have to continuously pretend I'm saying these things? Incredible.

I can't deal with this any more. You don't need me here for you to argue with your own made up points. If you are to respond at least try to respond to the poinrs in my post, and not just the ones in your head?
 
ivaldo said:
8 other appearances!?! In the League Cup AND in the Europa League?! He's practically a permanent fixture. Move over Greenwood, theres an older, less talented kid in town!

Your 'opinion' is 'correct' is it? How could I possibly counter such a statement. :lol:

Errr... Yes Andreas plays as a #10, regularly. You do watch United play, right?

And here we are, the epitome of doublethink. In once sentence you laugh at the idea of Andreas as a #10, then you have the gall to list Mata as your first option on the right? You're WUMing, right? fecking Dalot? :lol::lol::lol: Getting desperate, are we?

No, they haven't. How many more times do you have to be told this. You've had two, very detailed responses by other members definitively debunking this claim. You have had multiple examples given to you, and yet still you continue this ridiculous line? You still keep deliberately conflating growth and physical development. It's getting childish mate.

Well done. You've managed to list everything I had listed in the post you've quoted. As for the bolded; seriously? In the very post you've quoted I've written 'He isn't ready.' I've counted. This is the fourth time I've said that. And still you come with this? Do you have so little to defend you POV that you have to continuously pretend I'm saying these things? Incredible.

I can't deal with this any more. You don't need me here for you to argue with your own made up points. If you are to respond at least try to respond to the poinrs in my post, and not just the ones in your head?
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I believe you are arguing with yourself here.
Andreas has probably played as a number 10 once, possibly twice at a push?!
Remind me again, how many apps does Gomes have this season?
My right wingers were not listed in terms of preferability, merely in terms of whose been used there, which they all have and more than once or twice, (unlike Andreas at number 10, and yes Dalot has played there under Ole multiple times)

This thread is titled Gomes, will he stay or will he go, I believe I have listed the reasons why he isn't getting into the team, which I would say so far are probably pushing him out of the club, however other posters have given me legitimate points as to why this might not be the case, however you are now arguing with yourself and missing the point.

It's obvious my valid points are distracting you from the reason for this thread so feel free to get back on track whenever you please.
 
Champ said:
I believe you are arguing with yourself here.
Andreas has probably played as a number 10 once, possibly twice at a push?!
Remind me again, how many apps does Gomes have this season?
My right wingers were not listed in terms of preferability, merely in terms of whose been used there, which they all have and more than once or twice, (unlike Andreas at number 10, and yes Dalot has played there under Ole multiple times)

This thread is titled Gomes, will he stay or will he go, I believe I have listed the reasons why he isn't getting into the team, which I would say so far are probably pushing him out of the club, however other posters have given me legitimate points as to why this might not be the case, however you are now arguing with yourself and missing the point.

It's obvious my valid points are distracting you from the reason for this thread so feel free to get back on track whenever you please.
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He's played there 15 times. Significantly more there than any other position. Need I say more? :lol: :lol: How can I argue with this? I say he's not ready four times, and you spend 10 hours pretending I've said otherwise in order to build an argument. I'm out. This is genuinely ridiculous.
 
ivaldo said:
He's played there 15 times. Significantly more there than any other position. Need I say more? :lol: :lol: How can I argue with this? I say he's not ready four times, and you spend 10 hours pretending I've said otherwise in order to build an argument. I'm out. This is genuinely ridiculous.
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He really hasn't dude, he really hasn't.

Nice trying to discuss this with you,

We'll see how much time Gomes gets in the next few games.
 
Champ said:
He really hasn't dude, he really hasn't.

Nice trying to discuss this with you,

We'll see how much time Gomes gets in the next few games.
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If only there was some kind of website... But what's the point? The only time you haven't been arguing against your strawman is when you've been arguing against hard facts. :lol: :lol: :wenger: It's mind-numbingly tedious.
 
ivaldo said:
If only there was some kind of website... But what's the point? The only time you haven't been arguing against your strawman is when you've been arguing against hard facts. :lol: :lol: :wenger: It's mind-numbingly tedious.
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:lol: Righto buddy,
If you keep saying the same things they might just come true :lol:
Anyhow, I thought you were out?
 
JohnnyLaw said:
4b2b051747554971a966cebd545edd0d500x500@2x.jpg
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What you're seeing is four or five years of three-to-five days a week consistent bodybuilding training and strict diet. A person can add around 12 lbs of muscle per year, and 6-8 lbs at the low end. Since Traore has generous muscular genetics, he's able to add 12 lbs a year. In a four year period that's 48 lbs pure muscle. He's reaching his natural peak. The point being, the picture above isn't an indication of larger skeletal frame development. It's an indication that his existing frame has been packed to its potential with progressive muscle gain.

Using Adama as an example is not normative since most don't share his bodybuilding habits or his peak genetics.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
What you're seeing is four or five years of three-to-five days a week consistent bodybuilding training and strict diet. A person can add around 12 lbs of muscle per year, and 6-8 lbs at the low end. Since Traore has generous muscular genetics, he's able to add 12 lbs a year. In a four year period that's 48 lbs pure muscle. He's reaching his natural peak. The point being, the picture above isn't an indication of larger skeletal frame development. It's an indication that his existing frame has been packed to its potential with progressive muscle gain.

Using Adama as an example is not normative since most don't share his bodybuilding habits or his peak genetics.
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Very good points concisely made.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
What you're seeing is four or five years of three-to-five days a week consistent bodybuilding training and strict diet. A person can add around 12 lbs of muscle per year, and 6-8 lbs at the low end. Since Traore has generous muscular genetics, he's able to add 12 lbs a year. In a four year period that's 48 lbs pure muscle. He's reaching his natural peak. The point being, the picture above isn't an indication of larger skeletal frame development. It's an indication that his existing frame has been packed to its potential with progressive muscle gain.

Using Adama as an example is not normative since most don't share his bodybuilding habits or his peak genetics.
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Adama says he’s never lifted a weight in his life, that’s not really a bodybuilding habit.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Adama says he’s never lifted a weight in his life, that’s not really a bodybuilding habit.
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In this video alone he's doing resistance training with bands and weights. Hell, at one point he's even doing pulls. Of course he lifts weights. You don't grow traps, popping triceps, etc, without direct work that stimulates those muscles. ie. Weighted raises, pulls, dips, bench press, etc. Look at his quads between now and a couple of years ago. They're much larger. Now, you don't suddenly develop bigger quads aged 22. His traps, delts, triceps, biceps, quads, hamstrings, are all more developed because he's been on a functional strength and conditioning routine for a number of years.
 
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