Ander Herrera - When will he get a game?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Yeah... so many simple frustrating things about United lately.
Does my head in!!
Does my head in!!
I am sure LvG posts on here, because the more we speak up for him and the fans as another poster said, the more he doesn't pick him. There are posters on here like that as well. Are you out there Louis?
This place definitely influences the media, who thus put pressure on the manager.
One more season of playing bits and parts here and there could force Ander to start looking for another club, where he is likely to get more playing time. Certain players certainly do not fit in certain tactics and playing styles, but I am sure Herrera is a terrific centre mid who makes us play faster football, while being sound defensively.
Mark your calendars for next January.
Just in case we do last year again. Best predictor of future behavior and all that.
Although if it really does transpire that way, with Herrera contributing noticeably to a mid-season charge, and LvG making another end-of-season comment completely failing to acknowledge that, then ideally someone should take action.
Just in case we do last year again. Best predictor of future behavior and all that.
Although if it really does transpire that way, with Herrera contributing noticeably to a mid-season charge, and LvG making another end-of-season comment completely failing to acknowledge that, then ideally someone should take action.
Ander just needs to be patient and hopefully not start thinking of leaving. That would piss me off. Why aren't the other coaches encouraging LVG to use him I wonder?
Because he keeps them in a job and they will be shit scared of him. Ander was patient last year so hopefully he can be again. Great place to watch games from.
Nah, he will listen to his coaches but can see Giggs pushing for Adnan to start and obviously Rooney as well, at others' expense.Because he keeps them in a job and they will be shit scared of him. Ander was patient last year so hopefully he can be again. Great place to watch games from.
Only issue for me is Herrera proved himself enough last season to at least been given a starting role, & make the others instead, work their way into the team. Not vice versa.
But oh well.
But oh well.
I don't have any faith in anything Giggs does with regards coaching tbh. He wants Adnan to play because he is supposedly one of ours, even though he doesn't offer much and Wayne is a mate. The latter situation being the root of a lot of our problems.
Januzaj has done nothing to deserve starting over Herrera its infuriating.
You reckon Giggs would actually push for someone becaus he's a "mate"? Id be very surprised if he's swayed in that sense. That would be an astounding lack of professionalism, let alone deem him unqualified for this, or most other coaching jobs.
Not quite nothing, but I do agree with you. Herrera should be in the team.
"For periods late in the first half, United's forward movement from midfield amounted to virtual inertia. The ball was received, mulled over, considered, had a cup of tea made for it, and then played on."
I'm guessing when he learns to take no risks and pass it safely every time he'll be on the bench, I don't expect a start anytime soon, it'll be Fellaini an Young back in before him.
I agree with you totally. It's another reason I haven't gone mental at LVG yet because I think he has to be very careful with not disregarding Giggs' input, otherwise that might piss off some people at the club. LVG really wants this job to work, so he has to play a political game as well. The United job is so complicated already, much less having to feel your way around an assistant manager with powerful backers at the club.
As much as I love Giggs the player, I reckon he would absolutely do this. He's not the brightest imo
I don't think people can help sticking up for friends, even in his position tbh.
But that's why he shouldn't be a manager. The manager has to think about the good of the team. You also have to be ruthless. If this is his attitude then I'm afraid we're in trouble off the field as well, but we'll see.
My problem is that I don't want Giggs to be our future manager, so didn't want the manager to have him on his coaching staff. If he is asking for Giggs imput then he is bound to push forward his own friends and our youth products, even if they are not good enough or producing how they should. He is still too close to the playing staff.
I can just imagine Giggs becoming manager and the Class of 92 all swarming back onto the coaching staff.
LVG doesn't see him as an ideal AM, nor as a viable CM/DM option. He'd rather play a hybrid striker/midfielder type in the hole - and presumably considers Herrera too prone to drift to be a good option further back.
It's like people here keep thinking that LVG will abandon his infamous philosophy for the sake of one player. He might've done that for Messi, but certainly not for Herrera.
Herrera has indeed looked like a breath of fresh air for us on several occasions - that's the sort of player he is: He makes things happen. Part of that is precisely why he isn't a good fit for the LVG system, though. He shines on his own, outside the system, if you will.
In one sense I hope he does not start much for us, even though I've nothing against the lad - because the only way he'll be doing so regularly (within the foreseeable future, at least) is if the system doesn't work. And we don't want that. As long as LVG is our manager the only logical thing to hope for is that the system starts working properly. At least from where I'm sitting.
It's like people here keep thinking that LVG will abandon his infamous philosophy for the sake of one player. He might've done that for Messi, but certainly not for Herrera.
Herrera has indeed looked like a breath of fresh air for us on several occasions - that's the sort of player he is: He makes things happen. Part of that is precisely why he isn't a good fit for the LVG system, though. He shines on his own, outside the system, if you will.
In one sense I hope he does not start much for us, even though I've nothing against the lad - because the only way he'll be doing so regularly (within the foreseeable future, at least) is if the system doesn't work. And we don't want that. As long as LVG is our manager the only logical thing to hope for is that the system starts working properly. At least from where I'm sitting.
I have no hate for him and I am actually a big fan of his even before he joined. There's a difference between liking a player knowing his abilities and hating a player. Maybe you think every player is either world class or completely useless and nothing else.
Valencia was also an integral part of that run. No one seems to want to start him right? It's similar in a way except that Herrera is about 100 times better at football than Valencia. Now he has Carrick and schweini who are better passers than him and Schneiderlin who is a better destroyer than him. He has tougher competition. He isn't a #10. Sure he could put a shift there but he is too defensive minded for a #10 when LvG wants his no.10 to be effectively a second striker.
I would rather play with one world class striker, who isn't called Rooney. One of Carrick/Bastian, Morgan and Ander. We would be more productive than we are now. Still give the defence it's protection and still be able to link to the forward line. Wayne Rooney is the big problem, not the midfield. He isn't scoring, has bragged that he can be the main man, so has to have a 2nd striker with him, hopefully to take some of the load, however they are nearly as useless. I know LvG likes this system but it isn't working and if it doesn't work it could be a disaster in the long run.
It's ridiculous how we are not utilising him when our team is absolutely crying out for his skill set, imo at least. There were so many lulls during this game when we desperately needed the injection of some tempo and some forward pass-move football. Januzaj had some nice moments before ultimately fading away unfortunately, as was the case with the entire team.
We used the 4-3-3 to good effect in the final parts of last season and Herrera was one of our shining lights, so I don't get the rationale behind switching to a 4-2-3-1 needlessly. Granted it was Fellaini who was playing as the most advanced midfielder (slightly ahead of Herrera though not as a #10 or as a second striker) and he offered a sizeable presence in the penalty box and a goal threat to go with it. However, it's not like Herrera is purely a "controlling midfielder" and can't contribute in the final third. In fact he scored more than Fellaini last season (8 to 7) and created some decisive goals despite playing in a slightly deeper role relative to Fellaini.
He doesn't lack in work rate or is mentally found wanting either. He can misplace passes at times, sometimes in bad areas, but that goes with the territory as he is quite an adventurous player. Even then he has a 89% passing rate which is pretty excellent. I'm delighted to see Januzaj in the team and love that he is getting a run of games but not at the cost of someone who our team is crying out for imo. There are plenty of games to go around this season with CL, Januzaj is pretty versatile and can play in any of the three positions (contesting it with Mata, Depay, Young and Fellaini if he plays as a#10/SS) behind the lone striker. I'm not saying he is the be all and end all to our problems but he would go a long way in solving some of our problems when in possession.
We used the 4-3-3 to good effect in the final parts of last season and Herrera was one of our shining lights, so I don't get the rationale behind switching to a 4-2-3-1 needlessly. Granted it was Fellaini who was playing as the most advanced midfielder (slightly ahead of Herrera though not as a #10 or as a second striker) and he offered a sizeable presence in the penalty box and a goal threat to go with it. However, it's not like Herrera is purely a "controlling midfielder" and can't contribute in the final third. In fact he scored more than Fellaini last season (8 to 7) and created some decisive goals despite playing in a slightly deeper role relative to Fellaini.
He doesn't lack in work rate or is mentally found wanting either. He can misplace passes at times, sometimes in bad areas, but that goes with the territory as he is quite an adventurous player. Even then he has a 89% passing rate which is pretty excellent. I'm delighted to see Januzaj in the team and love that he is getting a run of games but not at the cost of someone who our team is crying out for imo. There are plenty of games to go around this season with CL, Januzaj is pretty versatile and can play in any of the three positions (contesting it with Mata, Depay, Young and Fellaini if he plays as a#10/SS) behind the lone striker. I'm not saying he is the be all and end all to our problems but he would go a long way in solving some of our problems when in possession.
It drove me a bit crazy that he didn't come on for Schweinsteiger considering it was 0-0 against a bad team at home. Schneiderlin holding and Herrera trying to link with Mata (who had nobody but Darmian to link with, really) might have helped us create something with quicker passing or penned Newcastle in even deeper.
Should be starting instead of Januzaj as a 10 right now, I think, but at least there's an argument for that and in the long-term, it's good minutes for a very young player.
Should be starting instead of Januzaj as a 10 right now, I think, but at least there's an argument for that and in the long-term, it's good minutes for a very young player.
You would think he's the new Messi the way people go on about him. He's a decent player,but there's no way he's going to play ahead of Carrick, Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger in the 4-2-3-1. Januzaj has done a decent job in the 10, it is only fair that he starts, for now.
The season is long, there's plenty of games for everybody.
The season is long, there's plenty of games for everybody.
Januzaj spends most of his time on his arse moaning for free kicks. He is soft.
Nope, none raves about him as if he's the new Messi.
What he brings to our team, no-one else does. He's neither a defensive midfielder or an attacking one, he's in between both and that's exactly what we miss. Someone who can link the midfield and attack, someone who's not as weak as Januzaj. He's a great little midfielder, who's very mobile, technically very good, can link up well, will never shy from a tackle and, most importantly, he has an eye for a goal.
It's not a coincidence that we played our best football, last season, with Herrera starting. And it's no coincidence we seem to play sh*t football when he's not.
As for the fact that he's not better than the trio named above, I don't agree, to some extent. A partnership of Herrera and one of the three above would be far better than the partnerships we've seen starting the last three PL games.
Take your club tie off and go sit in the stands with Valdes.
Well, that is certainly news to me.
He's some of those things. He's technically brilliant, but he doesn't have the positional sense sometimes. There were many times last season when he gave the ball away unnecessarily. The problem with having him in the number 10 position is that it then a) becomes crowded when Mata cuts in and b) doesn't give us the alternative of having Mata at 10 like Januzaj does; there were times during the Brugge game and today that Mata and Januzaj interchanged positions. Herrera on the right is pointless; Januzaj on the right gives us options.
Personally, I think he plays best as an 8. We will see that at some point in the season.
I'd have us switch back to 4-3-3; Herrera for Januzaj or even Rooney (he's been that bad). Bring back the triumvirate partnerships from last year, on either side.
As with giving the ball away, it happens in football, especially when you're looking to take risks - as Herrera normally does. I'd rather have a player who'll create quite a few chances whilst giving the ball away, rather than one who plays safe and creates nothing.
It's this giving the ball away, they all give the bloody ball away. He doesn't do it anymore than most. As you say if you need to score a goal, you need to take a risk. If there are only 5 minutes left in a game, you can't spend 6 minutes passing it aimlessly.
The only cases where giving the ball should be noted is in situations similar to Valencia against Arsenal or di Maria against Liverpool (or Villa). In these cases, both teams were given the opportunity to attack, and even score. Other than that, who fecking cares? (Unless, the player constantly gives the ball away, in which case you question the players footballing ability).
Exactly I couldn't give a monkeys if we give the ball away near our box. It is annoying but so what. If it is in our half then I will be worried. If a defender does it then it's a problem. Although telling the truth I remember Ander losing the ball away at Newcastle last season, but that should have been a foul as the guy barged him in the back.
Unfortunately, it goes against "vanGaalosophy" and probably angers him quite a bit...
My feeling is that teams had begun to neutralize that 4-3-3 set up with Fellaini, Carrick and Herrera. I think van Gaal will stick with the 2 deep in midfield for now. It might be boring but nobody can argue that we've been very solid at the back.
On Herrera giving the ball away, I agree, it would be understandable if he were in a situation where he's taking risks. But there were times (I noticed it during the City game especially) that he was too slack. He would charge ahead trying to press, but it would leave gaps behind him. If we're playing a possession based game, which we will as long as van Gaal is here, one cannot unnecessarily give the ball away. Be it Rooney or a midfielder.
It depends on the manager's ideas. Under Sir Alex or a manager with similar ideas, it wouldn't matter. If we're playing a possession-based system, having the ball and not giving it away is the first thing to do. We have the ball, more likely that we'll score. Both ways of playing the game are fun to watch.
Getting tired of Van Gaal's favouritism. What has Januzaj done to earn a starting place over Herrera? He's basically there just based on him being some sort of a "second striker" instead of an "advanced midfielder." Even more annoyingly, he's always the one subbed out, because it's clear to everyone he's not quite having an impact on the game.
And don't get me started on undroppable captains.
And don't get me started on undroppable captains.