You’re wrong.
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
You’re wrong.
An ounce of critical thinking would come in handy here, instead of swallowing an already retracted mainstream media narrative. Something you're usually harping on about, except all the times media say things you want to believe.
Either these progressive staffers were all about Liz Cheney, Bill Clinton's demented murder fantasies in Michigan, and generally prioritizing centrism and courting republicans over anything progressive, but going on Rogan was a step too far. Or, these progressive staffers were fighting the campaign every step of the way, being told to feck off every single time except when the topic was Rogan, where it was suddenly decided that the campaign had no choice but to listen to the people they never listened to before. Or or, maybe it's not real.
They addressed Rogan in the podcast. I think it basically came down to logistics and allocation of resources(ie, Harris). They wanted to do it but didn't want to waste a day going to Texas when they were focusing on the rust belt.
Did they admit it was a mistake? Going to Cleveland and doing a rally in front of 20,000 people that were voting for you anyway may feel good, but it was stupid to miss the chance to reach millions that would have listened to her on Rogan that could have possibly changed their minds.
Of course not, but Plouffe got pretty granular about the rust belt strategy and how they were targeting independents.
Interesting, I'll have to watch that then.
The state of this
Reflecting now that the dust has settled a bit, I think the real issue for the democrats is that the culture politics and identify politics became centre stage - partly their own doing, partly messaging from the Republicans landing.
The reality is that the majority of the population, based on many polls and other evidence such as voting results on certain other ballots during the election, are genuinely supportive of those policies around equality and abortion etc.
The problem though is that they also care about other things. Yes, the economy took a hit from the vantage point of every day Americans and their every day spending because of factors outside of Biden’s control, but the democrats failed to engage properly on how they planned to make life better for working class Americans.
The other thing is democrats often talk about progressive politics as something to vote for them on simply because they’re good for humanity. Of course that’s true, but there’s plenty of economic benefits of such policies. You virtually never hear democrats explain why progressive policies are also good for Americans and their future, just that they’re good because morally they’re the right thing to do.
Democratic messaging failed massively. Yes, there’s other factors such as the lies from the republicans, but fundamentally that could have been overcome with a better approach to messaging and better content to their messages.
The reality is that the majority of the population, based on many polls and other evidence such as voting results on certain other ballots during the election, are genuinely supportive of those policies around equality and abortion etc.
The problem though is that they also care about other things. Yes, the economy took a hit from the vantage point of every day Americans and their every day spending because of factors outside of Biden’s control, but the democrats failed to engage properly on how they planned to make life better for working class Americans.
The other thing is democrats often talk about progressive politics as something to vote for them on simply because they’re good for humanity. Of course that’s true, but there’s plenty of economic benefits of such policies. You virtually never hear democrats explain why progressive policies are also good for Americans and their future, just that they’re good because morally they’re the right thing to do.
Democratic messaging failed massively. Yes, there’s other factors such as the lies from the republicans, but fundamentally that could have been overcome with a better approach to messaging and better content to their messages.
They didn't admit anything they did was a mistake. Didn't mention how they messaging on the economy was completely off to reach the majority of people, didn't admit they had no plan on how to talk immigration and the border, didn't admit that campaigning with the Cheneys was obviously the wrong way to try to reach independents and moderates, and didn't admit they wasted money on celebrity concerts and over canvassing by hitting the same homes multiple times, etc. It was an exercise in hubris and feeling superior to any critics.
To think that somehow the Cheneys would move independents and moderates to vote Dem just shows how out of touch they are with voters in 2024. Even in 2004 when Dubya won reelection Dick Cheney wasn't popular and wasn't a factor in any moderates voting for Dubya.
"In Pennsylvania, only 21 percent of independents said Harris campaigning with Cheney made them more enthusiastic to vote for Harris, while 28 percent said Cheney made them "less enthusiastic to vote for Harris.
In Michigan, 23 percent of independents said campaigning with Cheney made them more enthusiastic to vote for Harris, while 30 percent said they were less excited to vote for her after she rallied with Cheney."
https://www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-campaigning-liz-cheney-flopped-independent-voters-1990516
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Yeah, going or not going on Rogan decided the election.
He is talking horseshit. Shut up, Old man!
When will we know in better and accurate detail how Americans voted? Waiting for Gallup?
Just seen the video Harris released yesterday. I mean seriously what the hell are they playing at. She looks like a drunk and goodness knows what kind of drugs she has taken.
I mean, it's still a disaster for dems, but if it makes them feel better, let them, i suppose.
Wow that’s crazy thanks for posting the video
If the report that her own numbers never showed her ahead then yeah, it was stupid not to take a swing at the largest media audience in the US.Yeah, going or not going on Rogan decided the election.
He is talking horseshit. Shut up, Old man!
A bit of a weird clip, no? What was the thinking behind releasing this?
Ah, the buzzword parade—"critical thinking," "mainstream media narrative"—all flash, no substance. Let’s get real.
Kamala had no issue flying to Los Angeles to appear on “Call Her Daddy,” a pod made for softball interviews. But sitting down with Joe Rogan, the biggest podcast in the world with 15 million subscribers? Nah, not worth it!
Rogan even said her team called to schedule it, then ghosted. Why? Maybe they were worried she couldn’t handle three hours of unscripted convo where talking points run out after 40 minutes. Or maybe they just wrote Rogan off as “unfriendly.”
Instead, their idea of reaching independents was having Tim Walz play video games with AOC. Brilliant plan. But yeah, keep acting like that’s a winning move. Take the L.
Did you forget what you were ranting about from the last comment?
None of this is related to what we were talking about, I haven't said anything about it being a good move or not, and as the cherry on top you offer up reasons for why the campaign decided to not do it that are not the reason I said was made up.
In case I actually have to get you up to speed with your own story: your Clinton hero Carville is blaming woke progressives for stopping Harris from going on Rogan because he's not woke enough. Not because of the reasons you now offer.
Not ranting mate - just pointing the holes in your logic. I posted a tweet, you jumped in with a monologue, and here we are. The point stands: skipping Rogan was a colossal misstep.
You’re hung up on Carville blaming progressives or whatever—none of that changes the fact that Harris's team ducked one of the biggest platforms out there. Whether it was fear of tough questions or bad advice, it’s a failure.
Keep spinning, though. It’s entertaining.
The official line from the Harris campaign about the potential Rogan interview is, that it would have required an additional trip to Texas due to scheduling, and that they didn’t want to take that time from being in swing states to do it. Rogan wouldn’t travel for it (which is fair enough, in my opinion).
I’m actually inclined to believe that reasoning, which implies that the campaign underestimated the potential impact of doing it. I don’t for a second believe that they didn’t do it, because they listened to progressive voices in the campaign - it’s laughable really.
I’m actually inclined to believe that reasoning, which implies that the campaign underestimated the potential impact of doing it. I don’t for a second believe that they didn’t do it, because they listened to progressive voices in the campaign - it’s laughable really.
That wouldn't have mattered. With how off Harris' team was in messaging, in spending the billion dollars, in completely missing what appeals to independents and moderates (not the Cheneys) even if she went on Rogan it wouldn't have made any difference. They would have needed a completely different strategy on the economy and the border at the very least for going on Rogan to have made any difference.
When people say that the US economy is the strongest in the world please understand…
We are running a HISTORIC deficit.
6.3% of GDP. Never seen before outside of WW2, the GFC or Covid.
If we weren’t running this deficit and balanced the budget, or even got close, GDP growth would collapse
Working on deficit reduction would have been counter productive, since Biden had to fix the economy without landing it in a recession. He did an amazing job considering he got zero cooperation from any Republicans.
Not only is there no recession, the stock market is breaking records.
Unfortunately, Trump will drive up the deficit a lot and tank the economy.
You posted a tweet of Carville ranting, stating that they should bring people like him back (who knew "I'm with her" was Suedesi approved). Presumably at least party because of that rant. That rant was Carville believing a story that has both been retracted and was always unbelievable, a story so dumb only Dem loyalists and right wingers could ever believe.
It likely was a failure, because the whole campaign was a trainwreck. A failure of out of touch people like Carville, because those were the kinds of people actually in charge even if that particular dinosaur sat out.
Critical thinking is not a fecking buzzword.
I don’t listen to Carville anymore. He’s not relevant for this day and age.
The election was lost by 0.7%-1.8% in three states. That’s not irreversible. Over-analyzing is not necessary, nor useful. Every few days, someone will throw a reason of why Harris lost. The reality: it’s a combination of factors, from the economy and immigration to becoming the nominee late in the game and, yes, her gender.
I think the lack of one single factor that would have swung the election her way kind of shows some of the weaknesses of the campaign.
I know the numbers are still being counted up but initially at least it didn't seem that holding onto latin voters would have been enough. Avoiding pissing off muslims wouldn't have been enough. And on and on across each of these demographics. She would have had to do better across the board to win and it still would have been close run.
Poor white people is where she got trounced and lost the election in my opinion and her campaign was never aimed at or gave them any meaningful consideration. You could run the same election again and maybe scrape back some of the smaller demographics and it might be enough particularly with a weaker candidate that trump. But its not a strong strategy.
The idea that for every working class voter you lose you'll pick up 2 in the suburbs just isn't playing out, at all.