I'm not saying he was a good man, but stalin and Hitler? Let's be sensible.
Protests following the killing of George Floyd
- Thread starter Abizzz
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
It's not all about police brutality, and it's certainly not all about America.
It's certainly raised some awareness that Britain has a 'hero' that has said and done some horrible things.
And what does this achieve exactly?
So wait... you're more angry over a statue being defaced than centuries of racism, oppression, genocide, etc....
First of all I’m vastly opposed to hunting as a sport. Secondly, the things you describe there can be viewed as bad through a subjective lens, whereas the subjugation and enslavement of other humans is objectively bad. There is a huge distance between that and the things you describe.
Again I ask, if those people thought they were living the right way, then how were there people that existed in those very times that viewed these events as wrong, in the same way that we do now?
I am not calling for anything to be pulled down. Neither am I equating him with either Hitler or Stalin.
Everyone including the Germans and the Russians accept that both murdered millions of people.
What I am saying that it should be taught in the UK what Churchill did that's abhorrent. Most of the British either don't know or don't accept that Churchill did anything wrong. I am calling for the education of the people.
Once again. What does disrespecting our war dead (especially one day after D-Day) have to do with any of this?
I have now been sent numerous political one liners in response, but not a single answer to the question.
Few defaced memorials are nothing compared to centuries of racism, genocide, systemic injustices and inequality.
Ah ok. So two wrongs make a right then? Excellent argument
That's a rather juvenile view of things.
It's a protest. Couple things get broken.
Its nothing compared to thousands of lives lost.
Edit - okay not thousands, COUNTLESS lives lost.
It's got people talking tbf, more than if they spray painted a wall round the back of Sainsburys.
As for the " tear" gas it's not what the National Archives have documented. Churchill calls it poisonous gas which in turn makes people sick. Yes they didn't use it because the cabinet refused to go along with it.
Exactly the point.
feck your feelings, if you're hurt over these statues.
There are more important things to be discussed.
I thought you said one line responses aren't valid arguments. Interesting.
Burning the cenotaph flags. If you hate this country so much then fecking leave!
Of course not, but there is a difference between the cenotaph and the statues. The statues aren’t erected in honour or respect of the individuals death but for the things that they did i.e in the slavers case the things they brought to the community or Churchill’s case - what he did in WW2. I would not argue against these statues being defaced because of the things that these men did individually in terms of enslaving others/their abhorrent racism.
The cenotaph is honouring and respecting those that have died in wars, from all races and backgrounds. You are right that it’s just a bit of paint/whatever and it can be easily fixed and erased but I can understand a bit more why someone would feel a bit upset about that, especially if their close relatives have fought and died in wars.
Unfortunately the british empire pillaged the world
But were their grandparents treated right after the war? Because a statue =/= they were.
Yup it can be cleaned and repaired.
Lives cannot be brought back.
It's an act of protest.
what the feck does that even mean?
Yea, I'm the juvenile for thinking that the primary national monument to the men who gave their lives fighting the Nazi's (among countles other dead souls - a great many of whom were not white) is more than 'a couple of statues' which should be considered meaningless.
When your peaceful protest starts to disrespect those who died to ensure such protests are legal? Something has gone wrong.
I'm done this thread. fecking disgusted with some of the posts.
Is being hurt over the BLM movement really the side of history you want to be on?
It's a protest, in anger of countless of lives lost over centuries of genocide, racism, injustices and social inequalities.
Reading some posts here you’d think america is completely different and definitely not built on ideology that has its roots in colonialism.Unfortunately the british empire pillaged the world
Nobody said that did they. I didn't realise you had to choose between the two.
There are videos out there of black police being attacked. I guess those black lives don’t count?
You just equated the removal of slave trader's statue with centuries of racism, genocide, systemic injustices and inequality.
Just pointing that out to you.
I thought I was done with this thread.
But I didn't think I would need to point out that the national Cenotaph to our war dead in London has nothing to do with some statue in Bristol that I had never heard of until today
Just pointing that out to you.
Its gets even better .... You just equated the vandalism of one symbolic war memorial with centuries of racism, genocide, systemic injustices and inequality.
The Cenotaph was not defaced according to Reuters. It was the Foreign and Commonwealth Office that was.
No. White privilege still applies. Hence colourism. Additionally, foreign folk who are sometimes less qualified will get the job than the local black person.
Then that privilege switches in majority-black countries also where someone from a poor, violent area is less likely to get a job. Lots of them have to put different addresses when applying to be able to get interviews and the like.
Do some research about treatment of black soldiers when they returned from the war.
Wait, all the anger here is about the little blm?
Stop the world I wanna get off. We are fecked.
Fully Automated Deluxe Gammonism
I said it in another thread but it takes less effort for some folk to understand a symbol like the cenotaph than it does hundreds of years of oppression and murder at the hands of exploitative overlords and the many intricacies that come with it. Which is why they probably care about it / notice it more.
Not saying that defacing the cenotaph is an acceptable thing, because it isn't, but I also think the folk using its defacement purely as an argument against the protests either secretly or unknowingly have a problem with the protests because they either don't understand them or don't agree with them.
He needs to go back to page one and start calling out all of it.
It shows.
Wait. And go where?