Protests following the killing of George Floyd

DoomSlayer said:
That's where I feel things need to be distinguished. I'm white but my country doesn't have a history of colonialism, oppression and exploitation over foreign lands and ethnicities.

In fact, my nation was conquered and partly enslaved by the Ottoman empire for 500 years, which ended at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century. So there is absolutely nothing that I should be ashamed of about my ancestors, quite the opposite. I even have a family story about a person who witnessed the Batak massacre by the Ottomans as a child.

What I'm trying to say is that when talking about white privilege, I believe it's appropriate to point out that it exists in the Western world due to the imperial history of those nations.
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I'm not sure that it necessarily only has something to do with Colonial Harm as such but primarily about the Societal Privilege a White Person holds over a Non-White person in some societies. Not necessarily saying that Bulgarians (is that right?) still fall under that but being completely honest I was hoping that @SteveJ would answer me and I was going to work on completely blaming the Welsh people for something or other. I'm leaving quietly now.
 
Re: the Glenn Beck tweet ~
Surely more deliberate distortion. Is anyone actually claiming that Floyd is a hero? If anything, he's become a symbol (and that in itself is arguably problematical for much the same reason as a recent post in another thread highlighted - albeit on a different subject - in that the rest of us seem to expect every Black person to be a spokesperson regardless of the varieties of their life-experiences).
 
fergieisold said:
What are peoples thoughts on the idea of White Privilege? As far as I can tell it's a bit of a poor term to describe the problems of racism. Not that privilege doesn't exist, but this term makes me very uncomfortable. It basically says if you are white, you are the cause of the problem, which is nonsense.
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JPRouve said:
I'm not sure how you ended up with that conclusion. It's simply describe the fact that if you are white, you have an innate privilege in society compared to minorities.
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That'sHernandez said:
That’s not what the term means at all. It means if you are white, you have more opportunities than black people and other minorities, and no one blames you for that; you can’t choose your ethnicity.

If you acknowledge you have white privilege and do something to change it, you’re part of the solution not the problem. It’s all about acknowledgement
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Withnail said:
That isn't what it says at all.

It's about getting people to recognize that their reality isn't everyone's reality.

If it's not pointed out, those of us who've never had to deal with this stuff can merrily wander around blissfully unaware that there is anything wrong because 'I'm alright Jack'.

I don't believe it's about apportioning blame. Rather it's an attempt to get people to realise that they are benefitting from an unequal system because if it's going to change it needs buy in from the privileged.
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fergies coat said:
I don't like it. It implies that I've had a helping had in my life based on the colour of my skin. I'm a normal working class person. I've had no helping hand. Its a blanket statement.
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That'sHernandez said:
No, it implies that you don’t get shat on because of the colour of your skin. You’ve probably never had a job application rejected because your name ‘sounds black’.

Anyone saying this has no idea what white privilege means.
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Withnail said:
It may not seem that you've had a helping hand but you've likely not had the hindrances that an ethnic minority has had.
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Kentonio said:
I’m working class too, but the difficult truth is that in comparison to a black working class person we have had an advantage. It doesn’t feel like it when you see all the advantages that wealth and class give people, but being black in any wealth/class band puts you at an immediate disadvantage in a number of ways. That’s all white privilege means.
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Cassidy said:
Its been pitched in better ways many times in the past and no one listened. Turns out the provocative nature of the term (even in its entire truth) is what has gotten people to listen and understand. Unfortunately sometimes people need provoking.
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One of the many reasons why such seismic change is happening is that we never had access to instant and powerful story telling before the mobile digital age.

I think it’s amazing that millennials and GenX are refashioning so many ideals that were long misunderstood.


 
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ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
quite frankly I see the term “white privilege” used far far more by white people, and the cynic in me would say they use it to show how ‘woke’ they are and use it to absolve their own issues.

it’s not something I would associate with promoting any black stereotype. I’m not denying the existence or the impact of white privilege, but it’s certainty been adopted.



that’s a ridiculous statement. There are 6bn people on the planet, to say that anyone who doesn’t speak up is complicit is absurd, no matter what your race.
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Nope, it's a statement to the white folk.

If you're, to this day, silent on racial oppression and injustices - you are complicit.
 


Gammon are pissed.
 
SteveJ said:
Re: the Glenn Beck tweet ~
Surely more deliberate distortion. Is anyone actually claiming that Floyd is a hero? If anything, he's become a symbol (and that in itself is arguably problematical for much the same reason as a recent post in another thread highlighted - albeit on a different subject - in that the rest of us seem to expect every Black person to be a spokesperson regardless of the varieties of their life-experiences).
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This is such a strange line of attack. It's obviously a 'straw that broke the camel's back' type of situation that has nothing to do with some sort of cult of personality around the actual man as seems to be being implied.

How the feck can they look to hold the fella to some sort of moral obligation to be a saint after he's been murdered in the street in cold blood?
 
I think it is great that these statues are being removed but it would be also great if they weren't destroyed but kept in museums as a reminder - both for the history behind the erection of the statue and the history behind it being taken down.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think it is great that these statues are being removed but it would be also great if they weren't destroyed but kept in museums as a reminder - both for the history behind the erection of the statue and the history behind it being taken down.
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A better idea would be to smash them into large pieces and display the pieces in a historical context.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think it is great that these statues are being removed but it would be also great if they weren't destroyed but kept in museums as a reminder - both for the history behind the erection of the statue and the history behind it being taken down.
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Agreed. No point in just whitewashing over that time in history, better to display them in an educational setting putting them in context.
 
SilentWitness said:
I think it is great that these statues are being removed but it would be also great if they weren't destroyed but kept in museums as a reminder - both for the history behind the erection of the statue and the history behind it being taken down.
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We can make space by returning all the museum objects we’ve stolen, too. Win-win.
 
Dobba said:
Buzzing for the statue fetishists to come out in defence of this one on account of it being an important reminder of our history, just after Googling to find out who this cnut they only heard of 30 seconds ago was.
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It's shocking it's still up and it's not like people haven't tried to get it taken down through the 'proper channels' either. I hope BCC show some balls and don't allow it to be restored.
 
Walrus said:
Re: White Privilege and other such terms. One thing I will say is that it does get a bit wearing and saddening as a straight white male, to be constantly made out to be the "bad guy" in any given social situation. Be it a discussion on sexism, racism or virtually any other similar topic, the straight while male is always the one to blame - the bad guy, the villain of the piece. Now I accept that this is because historically (and more recently) a lot of the prejudice and discrimination has indeed come from that/my demographic, but nonetheless constantly hearing that you (in an impersonal sense) are the bad guy, that your accomplishments count for less because you had xyz advantages. I see online discussions where people get jumped on and told their opinions are invalid because they are white/male, and everyone is eager to take the other persons side, regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

Personally, I am pretty comfortable in my views - I support the protests, and I acknowledge that white privilege is a thing - but I can also see how it can start to create a bit of a siege mentality when every other demographic in modern society seems to have it in for you.
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White privilege is the privilege to think that phrases like "white privilege" are "wearing and saddening" rather than feeling worn and saddened by being suspected of shoplifting every time you enter a middle-class store, having old ladies pull their purses to their chest like you might steal them, knowing you have decreased chance of employment roughly equivalent to being a felon just because your skin is dark, worrying that any interaction with police can leave you shot, even worrying that being in your own home, asleep doing nothing wrong might end your life (Breonna Taylor).
 
Walrus said:
Re: White Privilege and other such terms. One thing I will say is that it does get a bit wearing and saddening as a straight white male, to be constantly made out to be the "bad guy" in any given social situation. Be it a discussion on sexism, racism or virtually any other similar topic, the straight while male is always the one to blame - the bad guy, the villain of the piece. Now I accept that this is because historically (and more recently) a lot of the prejudice and discrimination has indeed come from that/my demographic, but nonetheless constantly hearing that you (in an impersonal sense) are the bad guy, that your accomplishments count for less because you had xyz advantages. I see online discussions where people get jumped on and told their opinions are invalid because they are white/male, and everyone is eager to take the other persons side, regardless of who is right and who is wrong.

Personally, I am pretty comfortable in my views - I support the protests, and I acknowledge that white privilege is a thing - but I can also see how it can start to create a bit of a siege mentality when every other demographic in modern society seems to have it in for you.
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Slightly drugged now so I might end up rambling a bit.

I had that feeling not too many years ago. It is understandable, but at the same time the feeling comes from being misinformed or just uninformed.
White privilege does not mean that we're at fault at a individual level. And we're not at fault for the color of our skin. We're not at fault for being given the advantages we've had due to the color of our skin. We're not at fault for the average ceo looking at people of colors names or skin and hiring us instead. We're not at fault for the justice system sentencing people of color to harsher sentences than white people would for the same crime. The color of our skin doesn't give us blame.

But we need to acknowledge that these injustices happen and that they often happen due to the color of peoples skin and we know that it is wrong. Change will not come unless we do our part to make it happen. We need to acknowledge that there are people who we love that have the wrong views & attitude on these topics and accept that it is our responsibility to challenge & inform them. If we who love them don't, they will never change.
We need to know that the system won't change if we don't take the responsibility to force it to change by holding ourselves and the people surrounding us accountable.

We owe them that, not because of the color of our skin but because we're humans.
 
BobbyManc said:
We can make space by returning all the museum objects we’ve stolen, too. Win-win.
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Indeed, but that is another case of museums/heritage institutions needing a complete revamp at all levels and repatriation laws to be changed because at the moment a lot of them are bollocks.
 
oates said:
I'm not sure that it necessarily only has something to do with Colonial Harm as such but primarily about the Societal Privilege a White Person holds over a Non-White person in some societies. Not necessarily saying that Bulgarians (is that right?) still fall under that but being completely honest I was hoping that @SteveJ would answer me and I was going to work on completely blaming the Welsh people for something or other. I'm leaving quietly now.
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:lol: Sorry for ruining your plans, man.

Yeah, I'm from Bulgaria and I was trying to explain our perspective. We never had centuries of systematic oppression and exploitation, it was actually the total opposite. I do agree we have a racism issue, but it's just not systemic and there is no reason why we as white people have to feel guilty. Actually, it's exactly why I feel strong sympathy towards the struggles of minorities in the West, because our country suffers from being between the hammer and the anvil (the non-stop historical clash of the West and the East) to this day.
 
Kentonio said:
Why? Should Auschwitz have just been bulldozed? Sometimes people need visual reminders of cruelty and inhumanity.
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Think of it as dismembering them. It preserves the artistic form and visual reminder of barbarity without any of the bad stuff.
 
oates said:
I was going to work on completely blaming the Welsh people for something or other.
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:lol: :lol:
 
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