For all you Linux lovers out there

Stanley Road · 23rd November 2009, 15:58

Linux is officially shite

dogrob · 23rd November 2009, 16:03

Waits for merman to appear enraged

narnar · 23rd November 2009, 16:05

PJ · 23rd November 2009, 16:07

Crap. Now I have to uninstall my ubuntu and recover my vista parition. Have you any idea how long that will take?

PJ · 23rd November 2009, 16:10

Now I've actually read it,

Shit piece of journalism.

Eyepopper · 23rd November 2009, 16:12

PJ, think this through, you're on an internet forum defending an operating system..... do you really want to be that person?

narnar · 23rd November 2009, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyepopper

PJ, think this through, you're on an internet forum defending an operating system..... do you really want to be that person?

You're just envious you're not this person!

PJ · 23rd November 2009, 16:24

Quote:

Desktop Linux: What happened?

Why hasn’t Linux succeeded on the desktop? There are several simple reasons:

This should be a fascinating read

Quote:

1. It’s still too much of a pain - While Ubuntu has made Linux much, much easier, it’s still not quite as easy to hook up a new printer, connect a digital camera, or manage your work calendar, for example, as it is on Windows. Plus, on the other end of the spectrum, Mac is even easier than Windows for most tasks and it has the same Unix underpinnings as Linux. As a result, in the last few years a lot of the hard-core techies who are the primary candidates for Linux have instead jumped to Mac OS X as a Windows alternative.

There's two points here: 1 - drivers etc. All hardware i've brought for my laptop has been automatically detected by the my ubuntu partition (even that obscure cheap bluetooth dongle from ebay) with no input from me, in contrast to having to install drivers and various other crapware in my windows partition, right down to a different media centre for every mp3player me or my missus have owned.
2- "ease of use", to me, ubuntu is far more intuitive and easier to use. But that's because I'm used to it. The same goes for windows, it's familiar, not easy. As for macs, I can't comment

Quote:

2. The divide and fail strategy - The energy behind the Linux desktop movement has been divided up between a lot of different players, from Red Hat to SUSE to Ubtuntu to Debian at the software level to hardware players such as IBM and Dell at the PC level. A decade ago, the thought was that the force of Linux attacks from multiple angles would ultimately outflank Microsoft Windows. Instead, it has diffused the force behind Linux and dulled its attack from a marketing perspective.

Only a microsoft advocate could deride choice and competition as being a bad thing.

Quote:

3. Not enough innovation - The primary value proposition for Linux is that it’s just as good as Windows - or at least “good enough” - and costs a lot less. Occasionally, you’ll hear that Linux is more secure or more stable than Windows - which can be true, but that’s mostly based on its Unix foundation. But, what innovative features has Linux brought to the world of desktop operating systems? The only one I can think of is the desktop manager / virtual desktop (which Mac OS X eventually adopted as its “Spaces” feature). The technology industry (and the consumers and businesses that support it) are still driven primarily by innovation, and the Linux development community has spent too much time trying to copy Windows and not enough time innovating on its own OS.

Not enough innovation? I'm sure merman can chip in with more, but the massive one to me is Ubuntu Software Centre. At this points the article starts to contradict itself. "oh, it's not like windows so it's shit" followed by "it's trying to be like windows, so it's shit". Linux is not Windows. A few niche distros try to replicate it (ReactOS etc), but for the most part, it's an entirely different beast.

Quote:

4. Businesses want someone to blame - As my colleague Bill Detwiler says, IT professionals prefer to have someone to point the finger at when critical systems blow up and it leads to lost revenue or productivity. If you have Windows desktops (or even Mac), you’ve got a big target to point your finger at if you’re having a PC software problems, and someone predictable to call to help figure it out. On the other hand, if your IT department went with Linux desktops then you’d be going out on a limb. If something goes wrong - like users losing productivity from incompatible software - the finger could get pointed back at the IT leader who made the decision to take a non-standard Linux approach, since there’s no big software vendor to blame it on. In other words, Linux can expose IT leaders to more risk.

How do you think the providers of this free software (eg Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu) earn any revenue? It's all earned through selling support.There'll always be someone on hand to help (or "blame" if you're incompetent enough) if you're paying for the official support.

iSparky · 23rd November 2009, 16:37

quick we need to delete the internet!

Stanley Road · 23rd November 2009, 16:41

If it's soooo good then why do few people have it?

PJ · 23rd November 2009, 16:48

The non-cynical person in me says because they prefer the familiarity of microsoft.

The realist in me looks at microsoft's horrendous anti-competition history.

lewstherin · 23rd November 2009, 16:48

Have you tried it Stanley Road? People don't use linux because they are familiar with windows.

iSparky · 23rd November 2009, 16:50

if windows 7 is as good as i hear it is then why would you want to bother with linux?

PJ · 23rd November 2009, 16:52

To support open source software?

iSparky · 23rd November 2009, 16:53

im just trying to stir things up PJ thats all, if you want me to masturbate over a copy of linux then i guess i could..

PJ · 23rd November 2009, 16:53

And linux is as good as I need it to be, so why should I bother with windows?

Stanley Road · 23rd November 2009, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewstherin

Have you tried it Stanley Road? .

Yes

It's a bit like Skoda's, no-one in my street has one

There's nothing easier than windows in the world for a corporate environment

Stanley Road · 23rd November 2009, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ

And linux is as good as I need it to be, so why should I bother with windows?

You shouldn't

Also people like you should not rave how it will be the OS to save the planet, it's as pointless as hoping Anderson will come good one day

brewlio · 23rd November 2009, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanley Road

Linux is officially shite

Sorry to hear that

jveezy · 23rd November 2009, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ

This should be a fascinating read

There's two points here: 1 - drivers etc. All hardware i've brought for my laptop has been automatically detected by the my ubuntu partition (even that obscure cheap bluetooth dongle from ebay) with no input from me, in contrast to having to install drivers and various other crapware in my windows partition, right down to a different media centre for every mp3player me or my missus have owned.
2- "ease of use", to me, ubuntu is far more intuitive and easier to use. But that's because I'm used to it. The same goes for windows, it's familiar, not easy. As for macs, I can't comment

The latest versions of Ubuntu have been very good with driver detection. In the past it hasn't been too great. To be fair, even XP did a pretty good job of detecting hardware without having to install drivers. I recently installed Ubuntu on my four year old laptop and found that everything worked perfectly right out of the gate, whereas an installation four years ago a lot of things weren't supported too well. But of course that's just progression. But I think both Windows and Ubuntu do a fantastic job of at least trying to make it easy to install new hardware, at least as far as the more common hardware goes.

As for easy? Try teaching your forty year old mother who hasn't touched a computer in her life to use Windows. Ubuntu is easy until you run into compatibility problems. Then it's a nightmare, but it's still a work in progress at this point and will get better with time.

Quote:

Only a microsoft advocate could deride choice and competition as being a bad thing.

I think he was mentioning the numerous distros as a point of confusion, not that competition is bad. When I decided to install Ubuntu, I chose it due to its popularity. Not to be part of the popular group, but because I figured it would have the widest knowledge base that I could ask for solutions from if I ever ran into a problem. Not enough people are educated enough to be able to make a choice like that.

Quote:

Not enough innovation? I'm sure merman can chip in with more, but the massive one to me is Ubuntu Software Centre. At this points the article starts to contradict itself. "oh, it's not like windows so it's shit" followed by "it's trying to be like windows, so it's shit". Linux is not Windows. A few niche distros try to replicate it (ReactOS etc), but for the most part, it's an entirely different beast.

Package management is fantastic in Ubuntu, especially if you know exactly what packages you're looking for. Getting updates is a breeze as well. But you're relying on the selection within the repository. If it doesn't have the program you want in there, the idea that you can download an executable from a web site and install an app doesn't translate cross-platform very well. Sure there's rpm packages and there's always the option to compile from source, but those concepts are definitely foreign to a new user. It takes a little persistence to figure those out.

As far as the rest of the article goes, I think the whole idea that Linux would take over was a bit ambitious in the first place. With all the problems that Windows has and with Macs supposedly being free of all of those problems, the fact that Mac's don't have a higher share than they do indicates that the market isn't as volatile as the people that made these rash declarations hoped.

Will Linux continue to grow for the desktop? Yes. The market "rejected" it in the sense that people didn't immediately flock towards it. It's not remotely ready for that yet. There's plenty of problems still, and plenty of nuances that aren't really problems but can be smoothed out to make the transition from Windows a bit easier. There were a lot more when I started using it so there have definitely been significant strides made and it's much easier to make the switch now than ever before. Four years from now it'll be even easier. The main problems nowadays are compatibility, which Apple had to deal with a while back as well, but those problems will be ironed out as time goes.

So no, I don't think Linux is officially shite like the OP put out. It's not this barnburner like the fanboys try to make it out to be, but I personally believe it's a very solid system with its main problems being compatibility with the overwhelming market leader. Five to ten years from now it would hopefully be easy to cross over. But then again it's not difficult to cross over to a Mac and people still don't do it, so I don't really know what to expect.

x42bn6 · 24th November 2009, 00:13

Quote:

It’s still too much of a pain - While Ubuntu has made Linux much, much easier, it’s still not quite as easy to hook up a new printer, connect a digital camera, or manage your work calendar, for example, as it is on Windows. Plus, on the other end of the spectrum, Mac is even easier than Windows for most tasks and it has the same Unix underpinnings as Linux. As a result, in the last few years a lot of the hard-core techies who are the primary candidates for Linux have instead jumped to Mac OS X as a Windows alternative.

Not really Linux's fault - the fact that drivers are proprietary means that someone has to write open-source drivers to get all your hardware working. Manufacturers should really help write drivers for Linux and release them, not the average Linux geek who steps into borderline reverse-engineering territory writing drivers for every single printer out there.

Quote:

The divide and fail strategy - The energy behind the Linux desktop movement has been divided up between a lot of different players, from Red Hat to SUSE to Ubtuntu [sic] to Debian at the software level to hardware players such as IBM and Dell at the PC level. A decade ago, the thought was that the force of Linux attacks from multiple angles would ultimately outflank Microsoft Windows. Instead, it has diffused the force behind Linux and dulled its attack from a marketing perspective.

This has surely been a strength of Linux - Red Hat, for example, has a very good uptake in areas where Microsoft struggles in the server area.

I have no idea where the "multiple forks will destroy Windows" came from, personally. I feel the forking of so many Linux distributions has helped them find niches in areas where Microsoft hasn't gone.

Quote:

Not enough innovation - The primary value proposition for Linux is that it’s just as good as Windows - or at least “good enough” - and costs a lot less. Occasionally, you’ll hear that Linux is more secure or more stable than Windows - which can be true, but that’s mostly based on its Unix foundation. But, what innovative features has Linux brought to the world of desktop operating systems? The only one I can think of is the desktop manager / virtual desktop (which Mac OS X eventually adopted as its “Spaces” feature). The technology industry (and the consumers and businesses that support it) are still driven primarily by innovation, and the Linux development community has spent too much time trying to copy Windows and not enough time innovating on its own OS.

ext3, ext4, administrator permissions in Vista/7 isomorphic to sudo/su, GNU, etc. etc. etc.

Quote:

Businesses want someone to blame - As my colleague Bill Detwiler says, IT professionals prefer to have someone to point the finger at when critical systems blow up and it leads to lost revenue or productivity. If you have Windows desktops (or even Mac), you’ve got a big target to point your finger at if you’re having a PC software problems, and someone predictable to call to help figure it out. On the other hand, if your IT department went with Linux desktops then you’d be going out on a limb. If something goes wrong - like users losing productivity from incompatible software - the finger could get pointed back at the IT leader who made the decision to take a non-standard Linux approach, since there’s no big software vendor to blame it on. In other words, Linux can expose IT leaders to more risk.

Other than the fact that this is bordering on a loaded question...

The author insinuates that when something goes wrong on a Windows system, you point fingers at Microsoft. Bollocks.

1) Microsoft has a very good software patching turnaround time. Big companies may have affiliations with Microsoft offering support. Adequate support and patching is possible.
2) Microsoft products are very good products for most intents and purposes. In an office environment it works fine. In a server environment it works fine if occasionally annoying. Things go wrong when you begin to push the boundaries and where you must consider writing your own code.

The author states that using Linux exposes IT leaders to more risk. I'd argue thanks to its differences with Windows the same problem applies to Windows too. You wouldn't consider making your server backend with Microsoft unless you need Exchange. You may prefer having all your programming tools through GNU rather than jump through a billion hoops to start programming in, say, C++ through Visual Studio.

Linux vs. Windows is a business choice which requires adequate planning and both have their own strengths and weaknesses. Both can be blamed for things going wrong. However, things don't necessarily go "more wrong" on Linux. It all depends on what you are trying to do.

The argument doesn't wash either with other things. You could blame someone for buying you cheap clothing from a small store rather than Harrods but then again there must be a reason they picked cheap clothing in the first place. You could say, "You shouldn't have gone there" - or you could say, "I didn't know you didn't have enough money".

Wibble · 24th November 2009, 00:32

Only a few nerds use it anyway so why worry. Not matter how much we hate Microsoft there isn't much other choice for most people other than a Mac. My son has a mac and while I like many features I find it just too unfamiliar for everyday use.

Addis · 24th November 2009, 01:25

That ranks up there with the NOTW and the Daily Mail as the worst pieces of journalism.

Linux has many flaws, but jesus christ. The whole "lack of innovation" isn't even worth trying to debunk.

Solius · 24th November 2009, 01:28

This thread is full of people who know far too much about operating systems to be normal.

jveezy · 24th November 2009, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solius

This thread is full of people who know far too much about operating systems to be normal.

I probably won't disagree with you there.

Stanley Road · 24th November 2009, 05:54

Bad Journalism = Articles i dont like

I thought that might be confined to the MU forum

I'll come back to this thred in 30 years and see if Linux has reached 3%

PJ · 24th November 2009, 09:00

Stanley's pathetic article has been well and truly debunked, so he resorts to the old market share argument. I suppose JLS > status quo then?

WeasteDevil · 24th November 2009, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wibble

Only a few nerds use it anyway so why worry. Not matter how much we hate Microsoft there isn't much other choice for most people other than a Mac.

That's literally total nonsense.

Raees · 24th November 2009, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solius

This thread is full of people who know far too much about operating systems to be normal.

The one post which I actually understood.

23rd November 2009, 15:58	#1 (permalink)
Stanley Road I.C.F. Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hate United Love Glazer Posts: 25,204	For all you Linux lovers out there <a href="http://d.mediadakine.com/ck.php?n=ad232b97&cb=7419" target="_blank"><img src="http://d.mediadakine.com/avw.php?zoneid=81&cb=7419&n=ad232b97" border="0" alt="" /></a> Linux is officially shite

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23rd November 2009, 16:03	#2 (permalink)
dogrob Reserve Team Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Just Watching The Wheels Go Round And Round Posts: 821	Waits for merman to appear enraged

23rd November 2009, 16:05	#3 (permalink)
narnar Needs Help Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: northern ireland Posts: 9,696

23rd November 2009, 16:07	#4 (permalink)
PJ Mrs Robinson's bit on the side Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Derry/Belfast Posts: 9,673	Crap. Now I have to uninstall my ubuntu and recover my vista parition. Have you any idea how long that will take?

23rd November 2009, 16:10	#5 (permalink)
PJ Mrs Robinson's bit on the side Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Derry/Belfast Posts: 9,673	Now I've actually read it, Shit piece of journalism.

23rd November 2009, 16:12	#6 (permalink)
Eyepopper one-eyed runt with a love for spinach Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Two manky hookers and a racist dwarf, think I'm heading home! Posts: 38,050	PJ, think this through, you're on an internet forum defending an operating system..... do you really want to be that person?

23rd November 2009, 16:37	#9 (permalink)
iSparky Gay in orientation - King Cocksmoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23,326	quick we need to delete the internet!

23rd November 2009, 16:41	#10 (permalink)
Stanley Road I.C.F. Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hate United Love Glazer Posts: 25,204	If it's soooo good then why do few people have it?

23rd November 2009, 16:48	#11 (permalink)
PJ Mrs Robinson's bit on the side Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Derry/Belfast Posts: 9,673	The non-cynical person in me says because they prefer the familiarity of microsoft. The realist in me looks at microsoft's horrendous anti-competition history.

23rd November 2009, 16:48	#12 (permalink)
lewstherin Reserve Team Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Derry Posts: 4,170	Have you tried it Stanley Road? People don't use linux because they are familiar with windows.

23rd November 2009, 16:50	#13 (permalink)
iSparky Gay in orientation - King Cocksmoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23,326	if windows 7 is as good as i hear it is then why would you want to bother with linux?

23rd November 2009, 16:52	#14 (permalink)
PJ Mrs Robinson's bit on the side Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Derry/Belfast Posts: 9,673	To support open source software?

23rd November 2009, 16:53	#15 (permalink)
iSparky Gay in orientation - King Cocksmoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 23,326	im just trying to stir things up PJ thats all, if you want me to masturbate over a copy of linux then i guess i could..

23rd November 2009, 16:53	#16 (permalink)
PJ Mrs Robinson's bit on the side Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Derry/Belfast Posts: 9,673	And linux is as good as I need it to be, so why should I bother with windows?

24th November 2009, 00:32	#22 (permalink)
Wibble Ingadus Speramus Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Centre Back Posts: 43,783	Only a few nerds use it anyway so why worry. Not matter how much we hate Microsoft there isn't much other choice for most people other than a Mac. My son has a mac and while I like many features I find it just too unfamiliar for everyday use.

24th November 2009, 01:25	#23 (permalink)
Addis Reserve Team Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Beckham, in toward Schmeichel, it's come for Dwight Yorke, cleared, Giggs with a shot! Sheringham! Posts: 3,662	That ranks up there with the NOTW and the Daily Mail as the worst pieces of journalism. Linux has many flaws, but jesus christ. The whole "lack of innovation" isn't even worth trying to debunk.

24th November 2009, 01:28	#24 (permalink)
Solius Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The leaders of the free world are just little boys throwing stones. Posts: 27,204	This thread is full of people who know far too much about operating systems to be normal.

24th November 2009, 05:54	#26 (permalink)
Stanley Road I.C.F. Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hate United Love Glazer Posts: 25,204	Bad Journalism = Articles i dont like I thought that might be confined to the MU forum I'll come back to this thred in 30 years and see if Linux has reached 3%

24th November 2009, 09:00	#27 (permalink)
PJ Mrs Robinson's bit on the side Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Derry/Belfast Posts: 9,673	Stanley's pathetic article has been well and truly debunked, so he resorts to the old market share argument. I suppose JLS > status quo then?